E125: Learn Infinite Banking Best Practices with Ray Poteet

In this podcast episode, we interview Ray Poteet, the founder of Living Wealth. He joins us to discuss what the best practitioners of Infinite Banking do, and compare that to the clients who are not maximizing IBC.

The best lessons are often found and learned by comparing and contrasting the best with the sub-optimal. The practice of using policies within the infinite banking concept can be a seemingly complicated and foreign concept to grasp at first. So, Ray thought it would be an excellent time to use the tool of comparison to share his wisdom with the audience.

Topics Discussed:

  • Why regular communication with a trusted guide is paramount to success
  • Keeping money in motion and avoiding stagnation
  • Overcoming the fear of the unknown and embracing help
  • The potential application of the “Rainy Day” mentality
  • When creativity and an adventurous nature pay off
  • Why a traditional view rate of return confounds and trips people up
  • What it means to pay yourself back to create a financial flywheel
  • Understanding that Infinite Bank is not about the policy, it is about what you do with the policy

Episode Resources

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Transcript about Infinite Banking Concept Best Practices

Nate: In this episode, we interview Ray Poteet, the founder of Living Wealth, to discuss the things that the best practitioners of infinite banking do with their policies, and compare that to the clients who are not maximizing their IBC policies.

She’s Holly, and she helps people find financial freedom.

Holly: He’s Nate, he makes sense out of money. This is Dollars and Nonsense. If you follow the herd, you will be slaughtered.

Nate: All right. Well, welcome back to this week’s episode. We’re actually all in the same room today. Holly, Nate, and Ray. This is kind of a rare occasion. We brought Ray Poteet, the founder of Living Wealth; my mentor and Holly’s mentor. We got him back for this episode.

And he felt it on his heart today to share some of the characteristics that make a good IBC practitioner, compared to one that’s just not doing well with their policies. And having been in this business for a long time, we’ve seen people achieve great things and people just kind of peter out and don’t really achieve much with their system; don’t do much with it, have a basic or no approach at all to it.

So we really wanted to shine a light. What are the things that we see the best IBC practitioners do? And what do we see the pitfalls to watch out for, to where you just get a pretty bland experience with it if you stick to it?

So, Ray, welcome back. And give us some insight into some things you’ve seen and things you’ve done. And where can we steer clients away from?

Ray: Well I wish it would be really easy to just have a sign that said, “Stop. Don’t go here,” but that doesn’t seem to work. But the number one thing that I’ve found, working with the people … and it’ll be 20 years this month that I’ve been doing IBC. So I’m getting a birthday and I’m going to be out of my teens, into the 20s, and moving forward with infinite banking.

But I would say number one is communications. Not only from us to the client, but the client to us. Other words, if you stop and think about it, if you need a doctor, you call the doctor, if you need a dentist, you call the dentist. If you need financial help, you tend to wait for us to call you. And we don’t know you need it without that phone call, or email, or text, or something, saying, “Help.”

Nate: Yeah, Holly, isn’t it surprising that our clients will reach out to us once crisis has already happened in their lives?

Holly: Yes.

Nate: We could have helped with it, but now we’re just trying to put the pieces back together, I feel like.

Holly: Or figure out exactly what they need to do. Because if they just called us in the beginning or let us know they needed some type of help, we could have helped them. But now they’re at the point where they made uninformed decisions. They didn’t have all the information they really needed in order to make the correct or informed decision. So they go off based off what they’d been taught or what they think they should do. And then, at the end, it’s, “Help.”

Nate: I think that’s a good point. You said, “The things they think they should do.” Because honestly, when you do infinite banking, sometimes the things you think you should do are actually not what you should be doing. Because it’s a different paradigm. We’re doing a different thing with money than the typical conventional approach.

Some people think that they shouldn’t touch the money because that’s all they’ve been used to. At least that’s what I’ve seen. Whether it’s an IRA or a 401(k), or just the money building systems in general. They may consciously not realize that this is what they think. In other words, they know that IBC, they’re supposed to touch it. But they’ve been doing it for five years and have never taken a policy loan. They’re buying into the old way of thinking that, “I need to avoid touching this at all costs.”

Ray: Yeah.

Nate: Because that’s what money is for most people. That’s the way we’ve been taught how to deal with money. Let it sit, store it up for 40 years. And I think that’s one of the things that we would all agree is a pitfall, or something that all the best practitioners that we have as clients who are just rocking with their systems, all of them use the policies and they do it often.

Ray: Yes.

Nate: And those that are not doing a very good job with it, or are just kind of petering on with it, are those that really never used it, have never used it, or barely ever use it, or don’t like it when they have to use it and they’re trying to avoid the system. Why do you think that is, I guess? I mean, why do you think people try to avoid it?

Ray: It’s the programming of the world. And the way the world works is they’re program them to store it. And the reality of scripture is motion, which is totally opposite from the way the world teaches. So even though, to get started, if they don’t keep the energy from IBC coming in, they tend to trend back to the old ways and away from the new ways. And so, if you can get them started and keep them on the path, it’s amazing the difference in the results that you get.

Holly: I would say too, it’s that fear of what they don’t know. And so they got excited and they got started, and then they just don’t know what to do. But instead of asking, “Okay. What do I do now?” or, “What’s that next step?” then they just leave it there and keep paying the money, putting the money in, and, “Okay, we’re good.”

Nate: Right.

Holly: And they don’t do anything else in between.

Or they get started and they get their system in place, and then they decide to put it to the side and they don’t follow the system. And so, because they don’t follow or use the system on a regular basis, they forget it even exists or how to do it. And by the time they’ve come up for air, I say, or taken a breath, they’re like, “Oh, I should have done this, this, and this. But I went down the other path.”

Nate: Yeah. The most common things I’ve seen is those who are very successful at IBC are always the ones who proactively do things.

Holly: Yes.

Nate: And those that are just barely making it with IBC, I mean, they’re not really accomplishing much with it, are those that are very passive with it. In other words, “I’ll use it when I need it.” That’s their mentality. “And I won’t use it if I don’t need it. Or someone should tell me, in black and white terms, when I should use it and when I shouldn’t use it.” In other words, they want to be given direct, “This is what you can use it for. This is what you can’t.” And they have this law book of how to use it.

But what I guess I’m trying to say, is proactive clients are those who are actually, “Okay, I have this policy. Now I want to go figure out what I want to do with this thing.” And they’re the ones who are achieving a lot. It’s those that are just setting it on the back burner, building up some money, “Hey, if I need it, it’s there. But I’m just going to go live my life and hopefully I never have to use it.” I mean, that’s honestly the vibe I get from some of them.

Ray: Yeah, they’re still in the old pattern of storage.


Ray: Rainy day attitude, rather than an active attitude; this is money to buy inventory, to move it, to sell it, to buy more inventory, to move it, to sell it. And I find that the activity is directly related, it’s sort of what I tell people, “You wouldn’t really even think about building a house without a blueprint. You get the architect, you get the blueprints. You got to go in and you lay the foundation and you forget the blueprints. What do you think that house is going to look like?” And they go, “Well, not very good.” And I said, “That’s what we got here.”

Nate: Some Ripley’s Believe It or Not house, or something.

Ray: Yeah. Right. Right. Let’s get the blueprints back out. Let’s see where we can make the corrections. And those blueprints can then tell, what we call our GPS system, or our cash flow system, based upon where that practitioner is. If they’re heavily involved, it’s more of a cashflow. If they’re on the fringe and they haven’t got out of debt yet, it’s the GPS. Or it’s a combination of those.

And that’s what you get with blueprints, you get where the lights are go go, where the plumbing goes, where the air conditioner fits, the vacuum sweeper. All of the things that go into the design of a house are things that we can put in place in the design of their system of banking.

Holly: I think part of it too is they forget that it’s banking, it’s a system to use. Like you said, Nate. And we talked about this right before too, how Nelson talked about imagination. And I think the IBC’ers that are really successful have imagination, but they actually treat it as a system to be implemented and used, versus as a savings account or bank account to not be used. Or they automatically associate, “I have no debt, so there’s nothing this policy, or policies, can do for me,” versus not realizing that every dollar that’s leaving their hand, they could actually be making money off of.

Nate: Yeah, that’s a good point. I think people get so caught up. And Nelson Nash, when he wrote the book, he tried to attack this concept too; which is they’re so focused on the rate of return of something versus the volume of interest. And he brought it up with a mortgage. So many people are like, “Oh, I got a great rate on my mortgage.” 3%, 4%, whatever it is. And what he’s saying, it’s not the rate of interest that it’s costing you. That’s not the problem. It’s the volume of interest.

And we know this just because of our connection with Nelson, obviously, that you may have a 4% interest rate on a mortgage. And yet the total amount of interest you pay on a 30 year mortgage could be double what the … you bought a house for 300,000, you end up paying 600,000 mortgage payments.

Ray: Right.

Nate: So it wasn’t a little bitty rate, it was the volume of interest.

And that’s one thing that I’ve actually been seeing on the flip side of things. In other words, it’s not the rate of return of the policy, it’s actually the volume of interest that we are receiving the more we use the system and the more efficient we get with it. In other words, I’d rather be making a little bit of interest on every dollar that runs through my hands, as opposed to making no money every dollar that runs through my hands; except for the few dollars I’m able to sock away in some sort of investment.

So most people have in mind, “I want to get the greatest rate of return on my investment,” without realizing that they’re missing out on a huge volume of interest they could be earning by focusing just on the rate of return. And some people won’t even do IBC because they’re like, “Well, the rate of returns not high enough.” I’m like, “The rate of return is technically infinite. Because currently you’re making $0 in banking. So if I even made you $1, I made an infinite rate of return, practically.”

Ray: Right. You can’t calculate it.

Nate: You can’t calculate the rate of return. Anything above zero is an infinite rate of return. And that’s what I’m trying to say with this, is that infinite making is about the volume of interest you’re receiving. And the better you are at it, the more successful you are at IBC, the higher the volume becomes.

And so it’s those who see it as just an investment, the rate of return mentality, “Hey, it’s great. I’m making 4%, 5% on the cash values. It’s tax-free,” All that’s great. But the goal is not to make a rate of return. The goal is to create a higher volume of passive income, of money coming in, than doing it the traditional way. So that’s the way I saw it, is, “Hey, stop seeing the policy as, ‘What’s the rate of return?’ See it as, ‘Look at all the volume of interest I can actually make on my money by practicing IBC.” And that’s the biggest thing I’ve seen between those who were successful and those who are not very successful at IBC.

Some people treat it to receive the rate of return on the policy. The other people see it as, “Hey, everything I can do with this policy, or these policies, credits me a lot more interest in volume.” So even if it’s only 3 or 4%, I’m doing that on a whole bunch of the dollars that flow through my hand. Which you don’t need to get a huge rate of return if you’re making interest on dollars that used to do nothing.

Ray: Right. Very true. I’m working with an individual who buys a lot of heavy equipment. And he said, “I pay 0% to Caterpillar and Komatsu.” And we looked out the window in his office, pointed to piece of equipment, and I said, “Well, what did that piece of equipment cost you?” He said, “$1.2 million.” And I said, “So how much interest did you pay on it?” He said they didn’t even pay a penny.

I said, “Well, what was your principal?” He said, “Well, 1.2 million.” I said, “Which is bigger?” He said, “Well, the principal.” And I said, “How much of that did you get back?” He said, “Nothing.” He said, “Are you telling me we can get the principal back as well?” And I said, “Yes.” He said, “We need to talk.”

Nate: Yeah.

Ray: So it’s the motion of money. We have to see it as a recapture of it, rather than a replacement of it. So often we’re just used to replacing our money that we spend. Because we earn money so we replace it in our checking account to spend on those things. And we never think about the recapturing of those dollars. And that’s the whole point of banking. Banks get their principal an interest and a profit, recaptures principal, interest and a profit, not just interest.

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Nate: I had a client bring up … and I’ve had many, many clients bring this thought up … “Hey, whenever I use my policy to go pay for something, doesn’t it feel like I’m having to pay for that thing twice?” I don’t know if you guys have ever heard that?

Holly: Yes.

Nate: That mentality, where it’s like, “Hey, if I just pay cash for this thing …”

Ray: Well, that’s the first time I’ve heard of this.

Nate: Right. I assumed you had. You know what they say about people who make assumptions, you know?

Ray: Right.

Nate: But anyway, “If I use my policy, it feels like I have to pay this thing back. And so I’m having to pay for it twice. As opposed to if I just paid cash, it’s done. You don’t have to deal with anything.”

And that definitely comes from the old mentality, the mentality that hasn’t understood recapture, in my mind. The goal of IBC is to recapture the money that we’re spending. That’s the whole goal. I guess, if you don’t want to do that, then don’t do the system.

Ray: Right.

Holly: Yes.

Nate: It’s really pretty straightforward. If you don’t like the idea of getting the money back for things that you do, then don’t do IBC. Because that’s essentially the goal.

I guess where I was going with this, was that he avoided using it because he felt like, “If I use it I’m obligated to pay me back,” as opposed to the recapturing and [inaudible 00:15:56], “I get to pay me back,” is my opinion on it. “So I get to pay me back as opposed to paying anyone else back. And when I’m finished, I’m going to have all the money back that it cost me to do the project, plus profit. And I’m trying to do that as many times as I can, to get as much profit as possible.”

But there’s that mentality of avoidance of the policy. And it’s typically due to what Holly said earlier, which was misconceptions, or they’re not understanding the purpose of it so they avoid using the policy at all costs. The same way they avoided trying to take IRA distributions and 401(k) distributions, and the like. They treat it as one of those things. Mainly because they’re so locked into this poverty mentality of … they don’t understand the flow of money, I guess. I don’t know if that one makes sense?

Ray: Right.

Nate: But how the money flows. It can be hard to show on a podcast, but the whole goal is to flow money in your life, between policies and out. Not to think of it as this stringent strict system, where I’m locked into a whole bunch of things.

Ray: Well, they don’t think of the current system, let’s say, conventional system, as restricting. [crosstalk 00:17:09]-

Nate: The regular banking?

Holly: Yeah.

Nate: Yeah.

Ray: And yet they want to put a restriction on the banking that we do, which it works in exactly the same way as a conventional system-

Nate: Just with different words.

Ray: With different words and one additional step. And so with that additional step … and it’s sort of like the coach doesn’t let you play in the game if you don’t come to practice. You just sit out and then you just show up at game day and say, “Well, I didn’t work.” “Well, you didn’t get to play because you haven’t been practicing.”

And I like to say, “I knew what I was doing when I started.” I mean, I read Nelson’s book. I had all this. And we got a lot of arrows in my back because he said you could do it, he didn’t tell us how to do it. That’s what we’ve really figured out, and are able to help and assist in doing, is implementing the system in your life.

Other words, you have a computer. It’s no good until you turn it on. And it’s no good if you don’t use the programs in it. Well, that’s very true. You’ve got a policy. It’s got a lot of programs. You got to start using the programs. Just having the policy doesn’t make the programs work. And some people are more efficient with programs, like we have Paul Bohlen and we call him our Excel Ninja. I can’t do anything with Excel, yet I got it on my computer.

Nate: Yeah. I mean, you talked about the difference between a driver and an operator.

Ray: Right.

Holly: Yeah.

Nate: If you’re dealing in the world of construction, you got some people who can drive the machine, they’ll drive it into the ground and replace it really quickly. An operator will make you money …

Ray: Make a profit with it.

Nate: … and be able to rock and roll. We want to make people operators of IBC.

Ray: Right. Absolutely. Be operators of their policies so they’re very efficient and profitable.

Holly: It takes some time, energy, and effort. And basically, with our conventional way, most people don’t view it as it taking any time, energy, or effort. Like when Ray just said, “It’s the exact same system as a conventional bank really, or paying, or this or that. But we have to add a step.” I’ve literally had somebody say, “I don’t have time to do that one step.”

Nate: Probably so.

Holly: And, well, what is it going to cost you? I mean, that’s what you really have to start asking yourself. You can implement the time, energy and effort now, and have great success in the future because you took the time now to do it. But if you don’t make the time or the effort to actually start implementing the programs and become the operator, you are going to have a system that isn’t going to be successful 10 years down the road, let alone five years down the road.

And so what really matters, is you have to ask yourself: not only do you want this system, but do you want to implement it? And do you want to take the steps to learn? And, yes, it’s going to cost you something. But what is the gain for the time it cost you do to that?

Nate: Yeah. And I think that’s a really good point too, that whenever we’re thinking about IBC as a whole, you can own a policy and the policy is a good asset.

Ray: Great asset.

Holly: Great.

Nate: It’s guaranteed to grow. In other words, we’re talking about … Holly, you had mentioned [inaudible 00:20:36], you’re not going to be that successful. One, I guess I wanted to make sure people understood. The policy is still going to be the policy, the policy is always going to do well. But the infinite banking is not a policy. Infinite banking is what you can do with a policy. So just because you own a policy does not mean you’re practicing IBC.

Sometimes I’ll have clients come to us who had started elsewhere, and they think they’re doing infinite banking. But really all they’ve done is purchased a dividend paying whole life insurance policy. That’s the step they’ve taken.

Well, that’s not infinite banking. That’s just simply owning a dividend paying whole life policy built for cash value. Which is not bad. It’s a good first step, I guess. But infinite banking requires you to learn some steps and to be proactive. And if you don’t want to be proactive you can still own a policy, just don’t don’t wonder why it’s working so much differently for other people than it is for you. Because, as Nelson said, “Always, the most important person is you in this system.” It’s not the life insurance company. It’s not the policy. It’s not even really how the policy was designed.

I’ve seen some policies that weren’t designed for IBC, that people are using in the concept once they learned about it. And they’re just killing it with it. It remains true. Those who are going to be most successful are always the ones who put it to work proactively, I feel like is the key word there. Because the common comment I receive is, “Well, I’d use it if I had a reason to, or if I knew what to use it for.” The most common thing I hear from those who don’t use it are, “Well, what am I supposed to use it for?”

And sometimes there’s things I can tell them, but sometimes it’s not really up to me to determine. In other words, I don’t know enough about everything you’re doing financially to be able to pinpoint different areas. The goal is to use your imagination and be proactive with your system.

I’ve noticed other people who love IBC. It almost always moves people to think opportunity minded. They’re always looking for opportunities to put their system to work. Like, “I have the system, where can I put it to work? I can create an opportunity to put it to work. I just want to put it to work.” And they are just rocking and rolling.

Other people, they’re waiting for us to tell them something. Which I feel like we can help with some, but you need to take ownership of it, I guess is what I’m getting at.

Ray: The example that just went through my mind. Last week, you had a son that was sick. You said, “Boy, we better take him to the doctor.” Finally, after being apparent, not getting better, low concern temperature. And it took time and energy to take that … you were proactive. You didn’t think, “Well, let’s just see how sick he can really get,” before you did something about it.

I can remember owning a computer for 10 years and not knowing about alternate tab, moving from one program to another. And a guy showed me that one day in an interview, I was talking insurance. He said, “Do you know you can just do this?” I said, “I don’t care if you buy anything or not, today’s been a good day. I learned how to use this tool I’ve had.” It was already in there, but nobody had shown me how to use it. He showed me.

We are those individuals that want to show you. But we don’t know what to show you if we don’t know what you’re doing. Other words, that proactive that you’re saying is so important. Other words, if you’ve signed up, come to the meeting, come to the course, get a webinar. Talk to Paul, talk to Nate, talk to Holly, talk to me. Let’s find out how to move you from point A to B. Unless you’re really content on point A, we can’t take you to B.

Nate: And I know some clients are happy with point A. They got in, they’d never had an intention to become an IBC’er.

Ray: Right.

Nate: Which is a bit of a shame.

Ray: And they love to park their money in a policy.

Nate: Yeah. Okay. Park it. But don’t think in your head that you’re doing some IBC mastermind, you know?

Ray: Yes. Yes.

Nate: And I guess you’re right. I guess, all of this points to those who spend more time with us in the community always tend to produce better results than those who think they can figure it out on their own.

Holly: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nate: And sometimes it’s literally, they just don’t want to waste our time, in their heads. That’s a thought. They don’t want to waste their time, they don’t want to book a meeting, because they don’t want to waste anybody’s time.

Holly: “I know how busy you are. I didn’t want to waste your time. I didn’t want to bother you.” Or, “Well, I felt like it was a dumb question.” I tell clients all the time, “The only dumb question is the one you don’t ask.”

Nate: Yeah, absolutely. And we like to meet with you.

Ray: We’ve learned most of what we do from our clients.

Nate: Yeah. This is not a good career to choose if you don’t like meeting with people.

Ray: Right. That’s true.

Nate: If you avoid people at all costs and don’t want meetings, then being in the IBC advisor world is not one for you.

So all that to say, we want to help you. It’s fun to help you. We gravitate to helping those who want to be helped, I think is kind of how we put it. It’s really up to you to put forth the initiative to receive the care, as opposed to us trying to hound you to meet with us. We don’t want that to be the relationship. We want you to come and receive the care, receive the advice, receive the counsel, as opposed to trying to do it all on your own. That’s what we want. But we’re not going to fight for your time.

Ray : Right. I had a client that said, “Well, I’m a very fast learner. Just show me.” And so he got into the program, fast learner. And I got a call from him. And he mentioned a guy that had referred him to me, that, “He was doing this with his policy.” And he didn’t know he could do it.

I said, “I tried to share with you. You told me you’re a fast learner.” He’s said, “Well, I didn’t know you could do that.” And I said, “Well, you can.” He said, “Well, show me how.” “Okay.” And he’s saying, “I guess I didn’t learn as fast as I thought I did.” And he was trying to compare it to an investment rather than a banking. And banks, you put money in, you take money out, you put money in. That’s all the banking does, is move money. Investments, you park money and wait and see what kind of return you get. You don’t do that with banks.

Nate: You find that the people who think they understand IBC … and they’ll be quick to tell you that, by the way.

Holly: Yeah.

Nate: They’re quick to say, “Oh, I understand that.” And they don’t even own a policy yet. “I understand that, I just wanted to know this or that, and all these little things.”

But with infinite banking, you want to come into it with, “That I should be doing [inaudible 00:27:46] policy and I don’t know everything I should be doing.” Because I think Ray and me and Holly would say that.

Holly: Oh, yeah.

Nate: 20 years of Ray doing this, and you’re still learning things you should be doing. And you look back, I wish I had known that 20 years ago.

Ray: I do. I do.

Nate: And that’s what’s fun about being in the business, honestly.

Ray: [crosstalk 00:28:03]. It is. [crosstalk 00:28:04]-

Nate: You never just get it and are, “Okay. I’ve learned everything there is to learn about what I should be doing with these policies.”

Ray: The example I use is you cannot learn to swim without getting into water. You can talk about it, the strokes and various … but you got to eventually get into the water. That’s very true about banking. You cannot learn this without having a policy and-

Nate: And just buying the pool pass doesn’t guarantee you know how to swim.

Ray: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. Right. You got the pool pass, but you haven’t ever got in the water.

Nate: Put money in. But yeah, there’s no effort, there’s no time, there’s no proactivity in it. And stop being so afraid of the water.

Ray: Yes. We have lifeguards. We have lifeguards.

Nate: Water’s nice. Yeah. Yeah. Very good.

Holly: We got life jackets even.

Nate: Yeah. We got everything. We got water slides for some, once you-

Holly: Yeah. The high dive.

Nate: The high dive at some point. But, no, it’s fun. I mean, it’s fun to be a part of infinite banking. It’s a fun system. If you’re not having fun with it, it’s probably your fault.

And I know sometimes some people they hear this, and, “Well, you didn’t know what happened to me and my finances,” and this and that. And I understand there can be things that cause stress and anxiety. But all I know is there’s plenty of clients who are having a great time with IBC. And there’s others who, it’s always filled with some stress and anxiety for some reason.

Ray: They’re on the fringe.

Nate: They’re on the fringe. And we want to encourage those to come in humbly, saying, “Maybe I don’t understand it as well as I thought I did. Maybe I do need some help understanding it more. Maybe I do need to go get more GPS’ built, more blueprints built, more studies built. Maybe I do need refreshers.”

Ray: I’ve got a client right now. Very, very wealthy client. Has two policies. No loans against them. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in it. He says, “I really want to use it.” And last time I met with him, I said, “Prove it. Take a loan.” He still hasn’t done it. You can’t leave money sitting and make this system work.

Nate: Mainly due to his lack of productivity, would be my guess.

Ray: Right.

Nate: In other words, he’s probably one of those people who sits here and think, “Well, I’ll use it when the need arises. I’m fine using it, but I just haven’t had a need. There hasn’t been a reason for me to use it.”

And what I would tell those people, there probably is a reason to use it. But all that to say, you, as an operator of the system, you want to think of opportunities to put this thing to work. And there’s so many of them. But I’m just saying, you got to think of, “Okay, now that I have the hundreds of thousands of dollars, what should I be doing with this money?”

Ray: And he has a huge student loan that he could recapture. He won’t move. In other words, we can’t make him do it. I asked him, if I took over the student loan, would he pay me? He’s said, “Well, why would you do that?” I said, “Aw, I’m stupid.” But no, I understand. I’d like to have that as a loan in my portfolio because of what he’s paying a month and for the time period he’s going to pay it. But I still can’t get him to move.

Nate: I do think this is why business owners tend to have the most success with IBC, is because there’s always opportunities in business to do things. And if you’ve got money, a business owner will think, “These are good ideas to use with it.” IBC has always seemed to fit really well to real estate investors and business owners and entrepreneurs and things of that nature, because their minds are already wired that way.

So my encouragement to you is, if you’re not in that area, is to become more entrepreneurial in your head. Because IBC is kind of an entrepreneurial endeavor at the end of the day. I mean, you can set it and forget it. We’ve talked about that. You can park money in a policy and it’s a good asset. But the goal of IBC is not a set it and forget it, it’s an entrepreneurial endeavor to open a bank.

Ray: Which is a business-

Nate: Which is a business.

Ray: … for the family.

Nate: Exactly. And to think of it that way. We’ve always said, “Think of banking as a business.”

Ray: For the family.

Nate: When you own a business, every day you go into work thinking, “How can I make this business more profitable?” That’s what you’re doing.

Holly: And successful. Yep.

Nate: Yeah. If you go into IBC, “How can I make this more successful?” You will figure out ways to do it. And we’ll be there to help you. We’re the business coach, essentially.

Ray: We’re one with the operator.

Nate: We’re the free consultant, we don’t charge you even. We’ll stop by any time, and we will meet with you for free and consult you on how to make this thing more successful.

Ray: That’s our ministry. That is truly the ministry of Living Wealth, to make you more successful.

Nate: Absolutely. Well, Holly, any last thoughts before we close it down?

Holly: No, I think we’ve covered it really well.

Nate: I think so, too. Ray, what about you?

Ray: Well, I just want to say thank you for allowing me to share. It’s a passion of mine to help people break the bonds of financial slavery they don’t even know they’re in.

Nate: It is, it’s beautiful.

Holly: For free transcripts and resources, please visit livingwealth.com/e125.

Announcer: Dollars and Nonsense podcast listeners, one more thing before you go. Ease your worry and start your journey towards security today. Visit livingwealth.com/secretbanking. You’ll gain instant free access to the special one hour course Holly and Nate made for you. Again, that’s livingwealth.com/secretbanking.