E169: Ways to Improve and be Successful in Your Financial Journey using IBC

In this episode, Nate sits down with friends and clients Garret and Miles Gastile, where they discuss their journey getting started with Infinite Banking. They also discuss the many ways they’ve successfully implemented the process in this short period of time.

Topics Discussed:

  • How can Infinite Banking Concept change your perspective
  • What are some things Miles and Garrett had to overcome to really believe in IBC
  • Why paying premiums can be really exciting in one of two ways
  • What were their biggest questions and hesitations while learning about IBC
  • Understanding the fundamental layers of Infinite Banking

Episode Resources:

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Podcast transcript for episode 169: Your Financial Journey using IBC

Nate: In this episode, I sit down with friends and clients, Garret and Miles Gastile, where they discuss their journey getting started with Infinite Banking and the many ways they’ve implemented the process in this short period of time. This is Dollars and Nonsense. If you follow the herd, you will be slaughtered.

Hey fellows, welcome to the show.

Miles: Hey, Nate. Thanks.

Garret: How’s it going?

Nate: Yeah, I got Garret and Miles Gastile here, clients for a few years. And wanted to start off just by saying I appreciate you guys coming on. I appreciate what you’ve done, and I really do think you guys are a good testament for how people can get started. I think, as you guys will both bring up, you weren’t independently wealthy when you started, maybe not so yet either, but you hit the ground running with it. You’ve adopted it. You’ve incorporated it really as much as you could, just having learned about it a few years ago. And I don’t think it would be a stretch to say it’s changed a lot of things about your financial life.

And I wanted to give you the opportunity to share with our listeners how you found out about Infinite Banking, what you had to overcome to really believe in it, and then what you’ve done with it, how it’s changed your perspective, all these things I’m sure people would be really, really happy to listen to. So I think we could go ahead and dive in. I’ve got Garret and Miles here, brothers. Tell us a little bit about where you guys are coming from, and then we’ll dive in.

Miles: So we both live in Boise, Idaho. I moved out here about four years ago, and Garret moved about two from Texas. I found out through Infinite Banking actually through Garret. Before that, I had gotten really fired up about real estate and passive income and was kind of obsessed with the idea of passive income. And then Garret comes along a couple, a year or so later and introduced this concept that was really, really weird and that I pushed back a lot on at first and sent a bunch of Dave Ramsey videos.

Nate: I know, honestly it’s a bit funny to be Robert Kiyosaki and Dave Ramsey and have them both influence you at the same time because they’re such polar opposites in so many fronts, but it happens all the time.

Miles: Exactly.

Nate: So Boise, Idaho. So Miles you moved there before it exploded in the real estate world, and the pandemic, wasn’t Boise one of those really, really hot markets?

Miles: Yeah. It still is. We missed that really crazy window. We moved in 2019, but it still has been pretty crazy nonstop since.

Nate: And Garret’s probably lost money just because he moved at the top.

Garret: I moved and bought right in the middle of the peak, so feeling good about that.

Nate: Okay, that’s good.

Garret: But yeah, I’m the older brother by a year, not much, so I look up to Miles in a lot of ways, but Miles got me fired up about real estate and passive income too. And when I first started listening to all that stuff, I was working at a small consulting firm and just working crazy hours. And I was newly married, and I think I had a kid on the way and stuff. My goal was to make partner. And I remember Miles telling me all this stuff and being like, this is too good to be true, and do I spend time on becoming partner or building real estate. And you can’t have everything and be a good dad and husband.

And I remember I sat down with a spreadsheet, and at the time I was putting the full amount into the 401K and all that stuff. And I remember sitting down with the spreadsheet and doing this, it was a really simple waterfall of if I save X amount for X months, I can buy a rental property. And if that cash flow is at a hundred dollars a month, that’ll add this much. And then in four more years, I can buy another rental property, and another three years I can buy another one. And I won’t get to financial freedom until I’m like 70.

I remember just feeling defeated by that a little bit. And then actually, I got introduced to Infinite Banking by my wife’s uncle who’s like my financial mentor, and he’s actually one of my business partners now. And he’s in real estate, and when we would talk about real estate, he would throw on this Infinite Banking thing. And I remember, same as Miles at first, was like, what is this? This is weird.

But then I read Becoming Your Own Banker, and I remember just whenever you first see it, it’s like this is too good to be true. This can’t be real. And so then I remember I called Nate, and I talked to a lot of insurance folks, and Nate was not a typical insurance person. There was no selling. It was like, well, just do whatever you want to put into it, and we’ll go from there.

Nate: That’s funny. Some people actually get mad at me for being so nonchalant in conversations, and I feel bad about that because I hate being sold stuff. I hate it. I don’t like the sales process. I don’t like being pushed or salesy slogans that are supposed to elicit emotional responses, that cause you to take action and all these sorts of things that people are supposed to do. I don’t like doing them. I such an adverseness to it that some people will be like, no, I want you to tell me what to do. And I’m like, I won’t do it, people.

Miles: It’s a good point. It struck a memory for me is I was helping out a family friend, and he is an intern at a large insurance company that will remain unnamed. He’s like, hey, can you come in? I have to hit a certain amount of interviews. And I’m like, yeah, that’s fine. So I went in, they were like grilling me about so do you want to invest in this and this? I’m like, I actually don’t do that. I put all my money in life insurance. And they’re like, oh, we do that too. And they’re very salesy, and it’s very like, oh, we can hit X amount of returns. And I’m like, it’s not about the returns.

Nate: Yeah, I’m doing the IBC. But it’s interesting that you bring that up because it’s just a tactic. They’re saying, I got to meet a quota. Come on in. That’s just a networking style. It’s kind of common. Not that I’m opposed to people who are really good in the sales industry, but I am just merely saying that a lot of times they have to do some sort of tactic to get you into the door. And then maybe what they’re selling is awesome. I just get so pushed off by that type of thing that I try to avoid it with all costs.

I was just in a meeting with a guy the other day. It was in-person. I don’t do a lot of in-person meetings by the way. And so he may be listening to this, and he actually told me, Nate, it’s almost obnoxious how much you don’t tell me what you think I should do. I want you to actually be excited and push me a little bit, which I don’t know, it’s not my personality. I don’t really enjoy doing it.

Miles: Policies sell themselves.

Nate: That’s right. I don’t know why there’s not a huge line out front of people knocking on the door, and I can just say next and sign here, sign here.

Miles: There will be soon.

Nate: After this podcast, right?

Garret: Yeah.

Miles: Exactly. Garret and I are talking to enough people about it, actually talking at enough people about it out out here.

Nate: Yeah. And you guys are learning, by the way, how hard it is to sell this, how hard it is to get people… You got to start using sales tactics, probably, guys. You guys have been trying to talk to people, and it hasn’t been working.

Miles: I haven’t converted anyone yet. I’ve tried a few people, and I’ve had hour long conversations. And then I send them the book, and I try to explain it. And they come back and they’re like, eh. Oh, what did I miss?

Garret: The running joke right now with Miles and me and our wives is that whenever we get anything, we’re like, we’re going to go buy more premium. And our wives are like, when are we ever going to see this money? Once we get to the point where we write a check, and it grows, I think they’ll be stoked.

Nate: Yeah, because you guys are still kicking it as fast as you possibly can, and none of your policies are even in the profitable stage of life yet. It’s something that I try to tell people. Paying premiums can be really exciting in one of two ways. It’s either you’re really excited because it’s profitable now, and you’re about to write a check to a policy, and the cash value’s going to increase by more than you’re paying. Or you’re just ticking one more premium off the checklist before that becomes a reality for the rest of your life. And some people think, well, we can’t really use the policy until it’s profitable. Obviously, you guys have been using policies for quite a bit, even in the first couple of years just getting things started.

Miles: Even in small amounts too, I’d say to people, we always worked for commercial contractors. I don’t have super high income. And I think even starting off with a couple hundred dollars a month policies has made a huge difference. So I think that’s a hesitation for some people is like, how do I afford that? And I think that is a huge hurdle. Obviously, that is hard to overcome, but now it’s not how do I afford it? It’s what’s the absolute max that I can dump in. I’ll figure out everything else. I’m going to use a HELOC to pay for it if I have to.. I’m going to put it in as much as possible. So it’s funny how that shift kind of happens, and that’s why it’s hard to sell people is because they’re like, that’s so counterintuitive.

Garret: I remember when Miles and I turned a corner with it, and we would be on the phone, how do I put as much in each month? And Nate was like, okay, you need to slowly, it’s a slow build.

Miles: You can’t create something out of nothing still. It still follows the logic and the rules of money. It’s just like we were talking about before, it’s the Nelson Nash analogy of a river. It helps to think of, oh the river, all the money in the world is connected. So I think it’s one pot of money, and that view of it has really shaped, at least how I go about my personal finances and what I pursue on the side of work and whatnot.

Nate: Well, tell me this, maybe this would be in interesting, do you guys remember what your biggest questions or hesitations were as you were learning about IBC?

Miles: Everything.

Garret: I’m probably a little bit more of a I’ll just jump in personality, as Miles knows, and Miles is more cautious. So I think I jumped in, and then now I have all these questions about it as I’m getting to them.

But I remember Miles sending me a Dave Ramsey video, and we debated it for a while. But I had to start putting money in and see the illustration that you made, Nate, to really get it. I’m like, okay, I kind of get it, I think. It makes sense. I don’t think I had a lot of questions up front, but Miles probably had some.

Miles: Yeah, I think a big hesitation I had was, obviously, the whole loan thing is weird. How does the insurance company make money? Why are they doing it? Why is Nate doing it? Why is he reaching out to me? What’s the incentive structure behind each entity?

And I had an interesting point come up. I was talking at this guy at church about it, and he was like, well, the insurance company is obviously benefiting from this. And he was asking good questions, and this is also why I’m like, okay, I’m not quite enough advanced in the sales part of this because I was kind of like, well, you just don’t get it. They’re not really benefiting. It’s a mutual company. We’re owners. But I think wrapping your head around all that takes a long time and takes, at least for me, really takes doing it. I got the gist of it from reading the book, and I was fired up about it, but then I still have questions coming up where I’m like, wait a second, why is that not right? And it’s still more epiphanies and more like, okay, I got to put more in. And after this, I’m probably going to be fired up and try to open another even though I can’t probably afford that at this point, but…

Nate: I keep on to reign Miles in. I’m like, just give it time, my friend.

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Miles: It’s about practicing, and I think that is kind of what, Nate, you’ve always said is just like any discipline in life, it’s about doing it. And it’s not just putting premium in. It’s about putting premium in and then moving that money. And that’s been a big shift for me even in the last year, I think, is how to deploy this cash value that’s growing. Because if not, it’s not really practicing Infinite Banking.

Nate: You make up a good point, for sure, in that the people we find that have this idea of where the transactions you make to a policy feel like payments, they mistakenly put premiums and loan repayments in those categories, especially premiums very common. And you find that a lot of times the people who are doing that are the ones who aren’t really using it very often, which is what you bring up. So in order to get out of some of the initial perspective problems, you have to use it to realize what it’s actually about. Because we can talk all day about it, but how you feel about the transactions will end up determining your success or your ability to even do it. So if you feel that premiums are payments, and you feel that loans are kind of bad, and thus borrowing from policies is probably going to get me hurt somehow. No matter what words you say or where your head’s at or an understanding in your mind doesn’t even matter because if you feel that it’s going to cause problems, then you’ll never do it.

And so I think what you’re saying is, yeah, honestly, the only way to get it from the head to the heart really is to do it. And that’s the case in a lot of different things, which I’ve talked about many times on the show, and I also like to bring up for the standard bell curve of people. So there’s obviously people on either side of the bell curve who are going to dive in with both feet and figure it out later. But that’s not the normal way to adopt a new strategy.

Garret, I think a lot of people would be interested in how you’ve used your policies. So maybe we can start with Garret, and also go move on to Miles. Real people, not me, describing, yeah, I got started and this is the things I’ve been doing with the policies.

Garret: So like I said earlier, I had very small amount of my income to go use to do side hustle stuff, but then once we did Infinite Banking, it was like, okay, how do we switch all this? How do we move all this income into going towards the policies?

Nate: I think I remember having conversations with you, and you were trying to ask me, should I stop contributing to the 401K to do IBC? And it’s kind of a fruitless conversation to compare sitting money in a 401K compared to sitting money into a policy. So it’s kind of a fruitless conversation if all you’re going to do is let money sit someplace. We’re really not even talking about IBC anymore, and you’re just trying to figure out if you’d rather own a policy as an asset compared to stuffing money into 401K. So oftentimes, my answer, which you were kind of the poster boy for it in some ways, you have to determine if the 401K is going to better achieve the goals you have for yourself or if putting money into a policy and then leveraging that is going to better achieve the goals you have for yourself. And that was really what the crux was. What’s interesting is you were stuffing money in a 401K, even though philosophically that wasn’t what you believed in as your actual future wealth building tactic. You wanted to go into the more entrepreneurial side of finance.

Garret: I remember talking to a couple of my bosses at the time about it, and I remember them kind of saying to me, I don’t do gimmicky stuff. And I was like, oh, all right. But then now, looking back, the things I’ve been able to do since then, so Miles mentioned his ADU unit, and because of the policies I had in place, I was able to loan him some money to finish that out. So he paid me interest that was a little bit more than the interest on the policy loan. And then I was also able to help Miles get to his goal of having that ADU, which was awesome. And I’d love to do more lending eventually, but need a little bit more capital probably for that.

And the other thing, so I also do the land business that’s in all these different circles, but I do it with my wife’s Uncle Dave. And it’s had its challenges, and as any business does, when it’s not our primary source of income, but it’s done really well, which looking back on the last two years, wouldn’t have been able to do that either without this. So that’s been really cool.

And then we also were able to do this Airbnb that Miles and I have with our wives that we’re actually trying to sell because we’re just kind of over it, frankly.

I think, though, to Miles’ point that he said earlier, I’ve been able to jump in with these things. One, I have the capital. I’m not using someone else’s money, so it’s my money. And then also, if you’re putting in the money back into premium, it’s like you still have to make good investment decisions and that sort of thing, but you have this whole other mechanism that you can use as the banker that allows you to do things that you couldn’t do before. So it’s like the access to capital, it’s the growth of the policies, plus it frees us up to do all these other things that get growth while still getting the growth in the policies. It’s freed me up to do all that stuff, for sure.

Nate: Yeah, well, just within three years as you’re bringing all this up, that’s a lot to do in a short period of time. You thought you might do one property every three or four years to begin with and to have a private loan that paid off well, and the Airbnb that you didn’t like, but still you’re in, and then a land business that you launched and funded. There’s a lot of just exciting things happening.

And Miles, you were on both ends. You were benefiting from the fact that Garret’s doing IBC. The ADU, by the way, for those who wouldn’t know is an additional dwelling unit. It’s like you converted a garage on the property, or built one at least, to host as an Airbnb. And I think it was pretty profitable while you were doing it, from what I can recall.

Miles: Yeah. It was. That’s kind of my jumping off point into all this stuff was, like I said, I was all fired up about real estate. And I had always had the idea to do that, and we ended up finding a house out here where I could convert the garage and just use a lot of my own time and money to do it.

I think I got introduced to IBC while I was doing that, so I was trying to play with the numbers and make everything work. And it was cool because, as Garret mentioned, to actually got us over the finish line, I had to take out a loan from Garret and his business partner, and that helped us get there. And from there, we finished it. I got to open another policy to dump the cash flow in from the short-term rental. I did a cash out refi on my primary residence because the equity has gone up so much. And then I used that money to invest in the short term rental with Garret that we have in Tennessee that we’re now selling.

So it just snowballs. It really does. And I think it’s kind of similar to the concept of IBC where all these things are connected, and the sooner you start to see it that way, the sooner as you start to see your cash as one pot and not just this is for investing. This is for living. This is for gifting. It’s all one big warehouse to pull from. So I think putting those all together was what really brought it home for me and made me bleed IBC.

Nate: That’s really good. And that’s what I’ve noticed is that you guys took it. You implemented it. You tried to push it as fast as you could, really pretty quickly, and then have just become full believers in it and have seen the fruits of it in a short period of time.

Miles: It also helped me to part ways with my passive income. So I think there’s a huge emphasis on passive income right now. It’s a hot buzzword, and I was, of course, fired up about that as well. I did this short term rental on our property, and yes, it was profitable, but it wasn’t suitable for me and my wife personally. There’s strangers on our property all the time. And so I think having infinite baking and having a place where I’m storing my capital where I know that it’s safe, it’s liquid, and it’s growing, allowed me to part ways with that. And it allowed me to take a step backwards, passive income wise, and not feel stressed about that.

So I think there’s a huge emphasis on how many doors do you have, how much passive income do you have a month? And I think people can probably get caught up and be really miserable chasing those numbers. And I’m grateful that I was able to take advantage of this asset that I improved, part ways with it, and I know that the money that I made from it is somewhere, like I said, safe and liquid, and where I’m redeploying it elsewhere into things that hopefully I like better in that are lifestyle more.

Nate: Miles, something you just said reminded me of why IBC caught my attention, and it has to do with deferring life. When you’re doing your 401K, and you’re chasing a day job, which I love my day job, if any of my bosses are listening, but I mean, the end goal for me is not my day job. My end goal is to be with my family and enjoy living where I live. And look, you’re not promised tomorrow. 401k, you’re basically making a bet on your future. You’re like, my future is bright, and I’m going to keep killing myself today so that I can have a great retirement.

And then I’ve talked to people who do that, and like you said, sometimes that’s people’s goals, and that’s great. But a lot of the times when you talk to them, they’re like, gosh, when I get to retirement, when I get to retirement. And what I really have loved about Infinite Banking is I can chase my goals now, but it still has freed me up in so many ways to live presently today with my family. We’re using Infinite Banking to buy a minivan because we’re having another kid, and without Infinite Banking that would strap us probably. But now it’s like I’m in control of that, and that really struck a chord with me about Infinite Banking. That does help you be present in your lives.

Miles: That’s true. It’s another good selling point is even big tough expenses that come around can kind of be spun as positives. I’m like, well, I’m using my policy. It’s all good. Yeah.

Nate: You’re right. Ray Poteet, the founder of our company, he’s done this longer than almost anybody in the country now, with Nelson’s passing, and he describes that that what used to be stressful events, when you’re properly capitalized, is no longer a stressful event. And so you can choose to go buy the minivan without even really being concerned because you actually know that you have the capital to do so. You also have a system in place to repay it and understand that it’s all going to be put back in. You understand that it’s probably going to be a profitable experience for you overall.

Whereas, you’re right, if you were the 401K mentality, it would be a stressful event because the only way to make money in conventional herd-based mentalities is to part ways with it for a long period of time and never touch it again. That’s the only perspective they have.

And I think you bring up a good point there, Garret, about retirement that we bring up all the time, essentially, that retirement as an idea is a pretty horrific master. Most people find themselves stuck in jobs. They don’t really care for, doing things they don’t exactly enjoy. But they believe that if they stick with it long enough, they can accumulate enough money in retirement programs to one day retire. And that’s actually not the life they want. They didn’t know there was another way, which why we call IBC the gateway drug to other types of financial endeavors, which it can really be. It’s like you start with IBC, and suddenly your mentality is, oh, I’m not just storing up money. I’m building capital that can be deployed. And so you start thinking, okay, what’s my life going to be in 30 years when I finally retire? But it’s more so being what can I do with this capital today to produce value?

And if you do that enough times, it doesn’t take very long at all to achieve a much different level of financial success. People want to know what the black and white benefits of IBC are, what can you put on paper? How’s the policy going to work? Is it going to benefit me numerically? And of course, all those things are very, very important, but what we keep trying to stress, and one thing that I wanted to get out of this conversation with you guys is just the fact that there is stuff about Infinite Banking, the reason why it draws people in, and they suddenly become believers in it is because it’s a paradigm shifting process where it not only can work numerically, but it starts to make you better financially in many ways, that you start to acknowledge would not be the case if you hadn’t ever started with IBC.

So it’s pretty unique in that way. It’s why you don’t find yourself just with a whole bunch of people in the IBC community who are lukewarm about it. There’s a lot of people who are cold and a lot of people who are hot. And some people think, well, they’re only hot because they got sold something, or the only people who are hot are the people selling it and all that stuff. But it’s like, no, the people who implement the process fall in love with it because they realize it’s changed their entire mentality about what they could do with money.

Garret: Absolutely.

Miles: In terms of the paradigm shift, life is still full of hard situations, and you still have to figure stuff out financially. You still have to be wise. It doesn’t free you from the laws of money. It just is a vehicle that frees you from the conventional ways of thinking about how to do finances, really. But it still means you have to sacrifice sometimes, and you can’t have everything you want all the time, and you still have to make good investment decisions. But it’s definitely a paradigm shift in how you think about money.

And one of the things I love about it that you guys have talked about, Nate, with us, is saving money in a savings account isn’t free. It has a cost to it. All money has cost, and doing Infinite Banking actually teaches you that too. Cash has a cost, and you don’t experience that as acutely as you do when you’re outside of the Infinite Banking. It’s easy to think, I’m saving money. I’m fine.

Nate: You’re right. So the understanding of all money has a cost then pushes you to say, if it has a cost, I need all money to be working for me. If it does have a cost, you realize that, and suddenly, yeah, so I want to have as much money working for me and as little costing me anything.

Miles: Loans and cash both net you zero at the end of the day. Doesn’t matter if you finance something or if you pay for it in cash. After you pay off the loan or after you replenish or once you buy the asset in cash, you have zero cash. So you’re able to have your cake and eat it too almost. You’re able to build the cash with compound interest, and you’re able to obtain the asset that is hopefully appreciating. So for me, that, I think, is the biggest selling point.

Nate: Having your money do multiple things at the same time is fairly unique in the world and so that some people can make it seem like it sounds too good to be true, obviously, because it’s a new concept that seems awkward. That’s why there’s kind of fundamental layers of education like we do in the beginner’s course and Nelson does in his book, where it’s not just numbers on paper. If you don’t understand some things, then you’ll always wonder why it works the way it works. So you’ll always wonder, why do I have to pay interest on a policy loan? If you don’t understand any of the bricks that were laid way before that concept even should come into play, then that concept is going to be weird to you, and especially if you hear a Dave Ramsey video and say you’re borrowing money from a life insurance policy. You’re paying interest to use your own money. And suddenly you’re like, well, yeah.

I did a podcast recently, I think it aired where most critics of IBC bring up talking points. They don’t actually have typical arguments that are sound to describe reasons why someone should not pursue it. Normally, it’s kind of the Dave Ramsey thing, which is talking points. Whole life is bad. That doesn’t mean anything. But you can overcome the talking point by layering the bricks, which is essentially what you guys did because, Garret, you may have said you kind of jumped in, but you did exactly what we would hope you do, which is a decent amount of research before getting started.

Garret: Yeah. And you really have to catch the fever before you jump in. If you’re going to just do it because Nate told you you should do it, you’re not going to feel good about it. You have to believe. It’s what we’ve been talking about. Reading the book and understand the concept, and if you can get through all of Nash’s exclamation points.

Miles: He’s excited about what he is saying.

Garret: But I think that’s the cool part about the books is the emotion behind it too, in addition to the practicality, which kind of fires you up. It allows you to kind of jump in. So I know all those other books are like that. They’re pretty funny and not super focused on the mechanics. Some of them, it’s more just-

Nate: It’s about your heart. It’s the heart, Garret. I’m telling you. You’re right. You can make white paper treaties on the benefits of IBC, and nobody would do it. IBC is compelling because of the paradigm shift that takes place on top of the numbers. Nelson does a better job than anybody because he does not give away answers in his book, which upsets people. He’ll say, if this is confusing to you, go back to when I did the grocery store example, and you’re like, what?

Miles: I remember drawing on a whiteboard, showing my wife peas and connecting all the dots.

Nate: So you bought into because you understood the illustrations and how they depicted reality. And I think that’s what he wanted to do was depict reality. And he did it with analogy, which is, I think, a proper way to do it. It can turn very analytical people off to do it that way, but it’s also the quickest way for people to grasp a concept is oftentimes through an analogy.

Miles: Yeah, I think partly why we were able to jump in so quickly with IBC was because we were fired up about financial freedom and real estate. You kind of have to want to get out of the way the herd is doing things in order to really do IBC and just keep trudging towards retirement, whatever that looks like.

It’s not the same thing as a 401K. Whenever I talk to people about it, they’re like, oh, well, I earn 5% return about, and the stock market earns about 5%, so it’s the exact same thing. And I’m just like, no, it’s the vehicle by which you go use it for other things. And if you want to control your destiny, and you want to be in charge of that, and you want to be your own boss and take risks like that, it’s the most powerful thing out there for that sort of thing.

Garret: You have assets, liabilities, and the bank, always. And I think that’s an epiphany that struck me pretty hard. Someone’s always going to be banking with my money, even if I’m super successful and buy a bunch of assets and a bunch of real estate. And the function of banking is always going to be occurring, so might as well take advantage of it and reclaim it for my family and my future.

Nate: As we talk about banking is a fact of life, it is a reality, you actually can’t escape banking. And so that’s why we talked about in the four stages of IBC commitment webinar and podcast we recently did kind of answers what, Garret, you were saying when you said you can’t really do IBC unless you change your mentality. And then you’re like, well, maybe you could, but it just wouldn’t work very well. And that’s what we’re saying is you can do that on the lower levels of IBC. You could commit to a low level and just kind of be a saver or something like that and just save some money into it. But you certainly aren’t going to be practicing IBC unless a paradigm shift occurs. And that’s when you can actually start operating in what we would call real IBC.

Garret: I mean it’s super cool for Miles and me to look back. It’s only been three years, and like you said, we’ve done a lot in those three years together. And it will be cool to see what happens in the next couple of years as we keep pushing down this road. It’s not an easy road, but it’s kind of cool to have this discussion and kind of take a step back and look back from where we’ve come from because of all of this.

Miles: Yeah, definitely.

Nate: Amen. Well, and I’ve been seeing it from afar, which is why I invited you guys. If there is clients of mine, and you guys wouldn’t be the only ones, of course, but who really have their life seems to have been really impacted in the way that we hoped it would be for everybody. Miles and Garret would be up there on the list of people who it’s impacted the way we would hope it would be, who fell in love with it, pushed it forward, achieved things with it, started moving fast and are just really bad at telling other people about it, and we’ll work on that.

Well, guys, I think we’ve gone pretty long. Anything else you want to mention before we shut down?

Miles: I think I’m good. Thank you for facilitating the last couple years.

Nate: It’s been a joy on my end. It really has. It’s been a privilege, a pleasure. Keep doing what you’re doing. Keep asking questions. Garret’s always concerned he is asking too many questions. But that’s what makes people believers is when they spend time in it, and we’d much rather have someone reaching out all the time than someone never reaching out. But all right, guys, thank you so much for being on the show.

Everyone listening, if you guys are enjoying the show, man, we’d really appreciate it if you would give us a like or a review or rating. It really is the number one thing that gets the show out there. This has been Dollars and Nonsense. If you follow the herd, you will get slaughtered.

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