Dive deep into the nuances of mastering the Infinite Banking Concept (IBC) in this compelling episode of “Dollars and Nonsense” with host Nate Scott. Explore the intricate world of IBC, a strategic approach to financial management that transcends traditional banking, with Nate’s insightful guidance.
Join us for a transformative journey as Nate decodes the five essential steps to becoming an expert in Infinite Banking. Whether you’re a newcomer or an experienced practitioner, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom, demystifying complex concepts and guiding listeners to financial proficiency and independence.
If you appreciate our content, please consider leaving a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or your preferred podcast platform. Your support helps others discover our podcast and benefit from these valuable insights.
Topics Discussed:
- Foundations of Infinite Banking: Learn about Infinite Banking as a system to be implemented, not just a product, and the potential of IBC to enhance every financial decision and action.
- The Five Steps to Mastery: Embrace a holistic IBC lifestyle, transitioning from traditional banking dependence to a policy-centric approach. And learn about active engagement with policies, utilizing them as tools for financial growth and not just passive savings.
- Committing to Advanced Stages: Discover the importance of progressing to higher commitment levels in IBC for maximum benefit, overcoming the fear of premium commitments and embracing the full potential of your policies.
- Maximizing Tax Benefits: Dive deep into leveraging tax deductions for policy loans when used for business or investment purposes, and the necessity of consulting with tax professionals for optimal financial planning.
- Strategic Loan Balances: Uncover the concept of strategic loan balances for increased system flexibility, and differentiating between various types of policy loans and their repayment strategies.
- Practical Implementation and Real-Life Applications: Gain insights into integrating IBC into everyday financial decisions, and the transformative effect of Infinite Banking on personal wealth management.
Episode Resources:
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LIVING WEALTH PODCAST
DOLLARS AND NONSENSE: EPISODE 218 TRANSCRIPTION
Nate Scott [00:00]:
Infinite banking is not a product that you buy. It is a system that you implement. You can either implement it successfully or you can implement it poorly. In today’s episode, I want to describe the five steps you can take to become a master implementer of infinite banking. I’m Nate. I make sense out of money. This is “Dollars & Nonsense”. If you follow the herd, you will be slaughtered.
Nate Scott [00:24]:
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the show. It’s such a pleasure to have you here today. Wherever you do consume this content, if it means something to you, if it’s helping you grow financially and grow to become a better infinite banker, then, man, it would mean the world to us if you would like, subscribe, leave a review, leave a rating. Whether it’s on Spotify or Apple podcasts or YouTube, it’s the best way to help the algorithm see that this is worthwhile content, especially in the infinite banking space.
Our goal is to help you become the best implementer of infinite banking that you can be. And this episode today, I think, is going to be a huge one in helping push that forth whenever we talk about the five steps that you can take to become a master implementer of infinite banking.
Nate Scott [01:01]:
One of the things I wanted to mention first off is that, by the way, as I said in the intro, infinite banking can be mastered. Some of you may say, well, what’s the point of even mastering IBC? Infinite banking improves everything else that you do financially. That’s actually its main function in our lives, is to make everything we do more efficient with policies implementing the IBC system, as opposed to the conventional ways that don’t include policies in IBC at all.
Making improves everything that you do, but it will only improve the things that you do if you implement it successfully. There are so many people out here who have policies, who have no idea what to do. They don’t know what they’re doing. They don’t know how to implement this whole thing. They know they’re paying premiums, they know they have some loans and loan balances that they’re repaying, and they’re confused, and they’re oftentimes concerned about things.
Nate Scott [01:43]:
And that’s one thing I want, to remove the veil, pierce through the veil so that you can see how to implement it successfully and become a master of it. IBC is really like getting into the banking business, and so you do have to start, if you’re going to get into this new business, you have to adopt new ways of doing things. You actually implement principles and strategies that help that business grow, and it may be different than other businesses. And that’s really what the world of infinite banking is.
You have to implement it the way it needs to be implemented, or else you’ll just get kind of this weird, awkward, one foot in, one foot out existence where you don’t really know what you’re doing and you never have a real game plan to grow at all. So we’re going to talk about mastering infinite banking today with five steps that you can take.
They’re pretty practical. And by the way, whenever we dive into these, this whole thing is going to act kind of like a Venn diagram, you could say, where there’s going to be some overlap, of course, in these five steps, they kind of bleed into each other, but they’re each going to be unique in their characteristics of how you can implement it.
Nate Scott [02:33]:
Let’s go and dive into point number one. The first thing that you have to do if you want to transition from just being like a basic entry level person with infinite banking, maybe with your one little policy you got started with five years ago, that you’ve taken a couple loans out.
If you want to transition to becoming a master of IBC and really implement this at its fullest extent and get the most benefit from it, the first thing you have to do is that you have to set up your life around IBC. You have to set up your life around your policies. You must change your perspective on money to being bank account centric. Transition that to becoming policy centric. I call this. You have to wean yourself off of your bank account reliant.
Nate Scott [03:11]:
We’ve all been so reliant on bank accounts, and there’s phrases in this world about bank accounts, money in the bank, or if you’re going to make a whole bunch more money in the year. You hear business people talk about having this big bank account balance as if that’s a good thing. People, they glorify bank account balances. And when you choose to adopt infinite banking at its fullest level and become a master of it, you’re not just buying a policy, but maintaining the old view of “a big bank account balance is good”.
You’re actually buying the policy because you say, I don’t want capital in bank accounts, I want to build capital in my own banking system using these policies for the benefits that it provides. So you have to start by building your life around your policies, wean yourself off of bank account lines. You have to get to the point where you are okay with smaller accounts and bank accounts and larger policy cash values. The best way that I’ve created.
Nate Scott [04:08]:
This is the most important step, by the way, of all this. So if you don’t even want to listen to the rest, that’s fine. But set up your life around IBC. Wean yourself off of bank accounts. The best way to do that is something that I detailed in episode 183 of this podcast when I talked about how to set up your life to maximize IBC. How to set up your life to maximize. That’s episode 183. You can go watch it on YouTube, preferably.
Nate Scott [04:27]:
The reason is because I do a screen share on that episode of the podcast. Episode 183, find it on YouTube. That details the exact strategy that, practically speaking, that if you implement it, will essentially default your life into revolving around policies and IBC. It’s the best way that you can practically turn your default into a life that’s built around IBC.
If you don’t do that step, by the way, if IBC, you never really revolve your life around policies and you just maintain to revolve your life typically around bank accounts. Nothing else even really matters because everything else will be confusing to you. So go back. View episode 183 when you’re done with this, it will tell you the practical steps that you need to take to maximize IBC in your life and to build your life around IBC. If you don’t do this, then you’re not really doing IBC.
Nate Scott [05:13]:
For the most part, you’re just owning whole life insurance policies and using whole life insurance policies, which is awesome, by the way. So one thing I forgot to mention, this episode is for the people who want to become a master of IBC. You can practice IBC at some lower level. We call that there’s four different stages to IBC.
You don’t have to become like a stage three or stage four IBC practitioner, which is really what a master would be; you can operate at a lower stage if you want to and be perfectly happy. This one is for those who want to take IBC to the max level, and there are benefits to do so, by the way, mostly in the form of improving. Since IBC improves everything else you do financially, the bigger scale you can implement IBC at, the more profitable everything else that you do will become. So that’s great.
Nate Scott [05:49]:
So the first step is, you have to set up your life around IBC. We are not buying a policy on the side to do a few little things with infinite banking. If you want to become a master of it, you have to say this is the main reservoir of capital and everything else becomes an offshoot of IBC. Watch episode 183, if you want to learn exactly how to do that in a lot of detail.
The second thing you want to do if you want to become a master of IBC is, you don’t want money to be sitting around anymore. So don’t let money sit if you want to become a master of IBC. Now, I say this with a few caveats, because I think that this gets a really weird rat in the IBC world, where many clients will come in thinking that there is some sort of magic secret sauce to taking policy loans out of their policies, that somehow, just by the fact that I’m using the money, the money inside the policy is growing faster.
So when Nate says, don’t let money sit if you want to be a master of anchor to banking, oftentimes what people will hear is, okay, I have to take policy loans in order for this thing to work.
Nate Scott [06:48]:
Now, the problem is, that’s just not true. The problem is, taking policy loans does not make the policy grow faster in and of itself. However, if all you do is pay premiums and let the money sit, of course you’re not going to become a master of infinite banking. You’re just owning a life insurance policy because it’s a great place to save. So here’s what I actually mean.
Step number one. Let me just confirm what I don’t mean. I don’t mean don’t just take policy loans for fun.
Nate Scott [07:13]:
Don’t just take policy loans for fun. That’s not what I mean. There’s nothing magical about taking policy loans. Don’t just borrow money just because Nate says “don’t let money sit”. The reality, what I mean by don’t let money sit is, I think IBC is at its best when you use your policies as a springboard to financial freedom.
Whenever you put a strategy around using policies, and you use them as a springboard to achieve something financially. So, for a lot of us, that would be investing money, lending money to other people, becoming a true banker. So we have to change our paradigm.
Nate Scott [07:43]:
The world has taught us this paradigm, that to be successful financially, you have to set money aside and let it compound for you in some sort of retirement account, savings account. I mean, whatever it is, it’s all about storage of money. And so whenever I say don’t let money sit, I’m actually trying to fight back that paradigm that you’re only successful based on the pile of money you’ve accumulated in some sort of investment account.
What we are trying to accomplish when I say don’t let money sit, is use the policy not just to let it sit as an asset, which it does a very good job doing, but to use it as a springboard to leverage the system to go build wealth in unique ways that you wouldn’t typically accomplish without the system. I’ve said this many times before, infinite banking acts as the gateway drug to open up new financial opportunities and financial freedom.
It is the step one for so many people to go achieve bigger and better things in their life financially, mainly because this is at its forefront, because it starts to remove them from the saver mentality of just storing up money and transition them into more of an entrepreneurial investor mentality, where we actually will put this money to use to go achieve things. So that’s, of course, the vast majority of what I do with my policies is invest. That’s the vast majority of what I’m using these policies to do.
Nate Scott [09:00]:
I pay as much money as I possibly can into the policy premiums to boost cash values as big as possible. Praise God. And from the policy, I will then borrow money to go make other investments that are going to generate higher rates of return, additional cash flow, tax benefits, whatever it is.
And so when we say, don’t let money sit, it means, go achieve something with the money. If you want to become a master of IBC, go achieve something with the money. Don’t just sit idly on it. Nelson Nash, when he wrote the book becoming your own banker, which really started this whole thing, he had a concept called use it or lose it. Now, that might be to an extreme.
Nate Scott [09:30]:
It’s not like if you don’t use policies, you’re going to be a failure. But what he is trying to say is, you’ll never truly implement the system if you never put it to work. And the best ways to put it to work are to invest, grow, become financially successful and independent beyond just a saver mentality.
So that’s number two. Don’t let money sit. Don’t be afraid to use the policy. The third thing I want to say, and I mentioned this at the very beginning too, the third thing you have to do to master infinite banking is commit to stage three or stage four of infinite banking. So I know this kind of comes as obvious, and by the way, if you don’t know what I’m talking about, I did a webinar and podcast episodes regarding what I call the four stages of IBC commitment.
Nate Scott [10:07]:
I believe that IBC can be, you know, you can do IBC. You can do this infinite banking thing in four different stages, each with their own unique characteristics. Stage one, two, three and four. Stage one I call the saver stage. Stage two is the capital builder stage. Stage three is the entrepreneur stage, and stage four is the lifestyle stage.
So if you have, like I just mentioned, to watch episode 183 for point number one in this one, I’m going to ask you to watch something else as well. I’m going to ask you to go watch episode 202 for a deep dive into the four stages of IBC commitment.
Nate Scott [10:36]:
Once again, I do a screen share on that one. You might like the YouTube edition of that. So, episode 202 is the four stages of IBC commitment. Once again, those two episodes. Episode 183, episode 202, if you watch both of those, you will be a master of IBC. By the way, if you implement the concepts I discuss in episode 183 and episode 202, until you become a master, there’s no way around it.
It’s the most in-depth conversation on IBC that we can do. So, whenever I say you have to commit to stage three or four, what this really means is that in stage three or four, the vast majority of your financial capacity is flowing into policies before it’s being used.
Nate Scott [00:11:10]:
You cannot become a master IBC, or in stage one, at a low level commitment. So the idea is this, if I was to make $200,000 a year and I’m saving 50,000 of it in what I call free cash flow, so, in other words, I’ve got to pay taxes on my income, I may give some to charity, I may have my lifestyle expenses paid and what’s left over to go save, invest and do things. What I call free cash flow is $50,000.
And the idea would be like a stage one person may be paying a premium of $10,000 a year in policies. What’s obvious is that all he’s really doing is saving some money into policy. That’s what he’s doing. It’s just a little piece of the bucket, and he’s got to be doing something else with the 35 to 40 grand that he’s not choosing to put in a free cash flow. And so he’s just saving some money because it’s a safe, tax free place to set some money aside.
Nate Scott [11:57]:
Can you become a master infinite banker doing that? And the obvious answer is no. There’s no way you’re ever going to achieve much with IBC. You can only start to achieve things with infinite banking once you get to stage three or four, which is really committing to put, at least having the ability to put, your entire bucket of free cash flow into policies before we go put it to work elsewhere.
So, in that case would be him putting in $50,000 a year into his system before pulling the money out to go leverage it to go do other things. That’s the only way to do it. So in this third step, commit to stage three or four. You have to get over your fear of premium. You cannot be afraid of opening policies and expanding the system and think that you’re going to transition from being a basic implementer to a master.
Nate Scott [12:39]:
So that has to be done. We have to get over our fear of premium. Typically, we’re afraid to open new policies, and we’re afraid of premium because we have some limiting beliefs about the flexibility of the policies, which we talk about in some of these videos as well, which I don’t have time in this episode to talk about all the flexibility. But the reality is, most people are afraid of committing to premiums because they think there’s going to be some large negative consequence if they don’t fund the policies to the max that they wanted to fund. So in this case, let’s say it’s $50,000 a year for the guy. That’s his free cash flow. That’s what he wants to put in. He thinks that if I only had 30 grand in one year, that the policy is going to disappear.
Nate Scott [13:14]:
All the money I put into, it’s gone and the whole thing’s over. And I lost all my money. Now, whenever I put it like that, there may be some people who actually think that what I just said was true, but I actually said that facetiously. I said that as a joke. Because for most of us who have been involved with IBC, we know that’s actually not how it works. That’s not how it works. There’s not some sort of huge negative consequence for not funding. We’ve talked about it many different times on many different podcast episodes.
Nate Scott [13:36]:
The reality of the flexibility of the premium. We’ve done podcasts that are just about that, about how every policy that started essentially has a max contribution that you can put in and a minimum contribution that can be put in, and you fill up this gap or this window between the max and the minimum contributions by contributing to this thing called the paid of additions rider.
So in other words, there’s always going to be a ton of flexibility just because you want to build a policy that can fit 50 grand. I mean, you have to put 50 grand in, probably put in something like 15,000 or something like that at the minimum level, maybe even lower. So, the reality is, you will never achieve much in infinite banking if you see your premium as a liability or a payment, that is money that’s leaving your economy, and that you have to keep at a really low level just to be safe and secure.
The reality is, and we’ve beat this horse dead many times in this show, you will never excel in infinite banking if you are afraid of premium, afraid of putting capital into policies, and you want to keep the capital going into policies at its lowest level, never going to work. So commit to safety.
Nate Scott [16:13]:
So commit to stage three or four, the entrepreneur stage or the lifestyle stage. To understand what I’m talking about with the stages, go watch the four stages of IBC commitment, a webinar that I did, or just go to episode 202 of this podcast and you’ll learn all about it. It’s one of the most powerful topics you can learn about in the infinite banking world. The fourth thing that you can do to become a master of IBC is take advantage of tax deductions for the interest that you pay back on policy loans.
Now, I am not a tax advisor. I’m not an accountant. Please do not take my word for any sort of tax advice. I’m not giving you any tax advice, however, from accountants that we’ve talked to in the past and what we’ve been doing ourselves is we’ve come to the understanding that whenever I take a policy loan out, and I take it out to make an investment or to finance something in my business, that I can deduct the policy loan interest just as if I had borrowed it from a bank.
Nate Scott [17:04]:
So the interest I pay back to the insurance company can be a tax deduction for me when I use it for business or investment purposes. Now, policy loans or the interest that you pay on policy loans are not tax deductible in general, right? Just like a car loan is not tax deductible in general. Generally speaking, if I borrowed money to purchase a vehicle, I do not get to deduct the policy, I mean the loan interest on the car loan. However, if my business borrows money to own a company vehicle, the interest that the business pays to the bank for the car loan is a deduction. And that same thing kind of applies here. If the business borrows money against the policy to purchase a vehicle, it could also write off the interest that is paid. Same thing goes for investments. If I was to borrow money to purchase an investment, the interest I pay on the loan is deductible against the profit that the investment produces. Right?
Nate Scott [17:54]:
The same thing would be the case if I borrowed money from policies from the insurance company with my policy as collateral to go purchase an investment. That should be a deduction to me, the interest I pay. So to become a real master, you have to take advantage of these interest deductions that you can create. First off, get your accountant on board. Get your accountant on board if you’re a client with us.
We actually hired a CPA to write an opinion letter years ago on the tax deductibility of policy loan interest for business or investment purposes. And we’re happy to send that opinion letter out to our clients that they can share with your accountant so that your accountant can understand where we’re coming from. Because normally this is not something that’s just talked about all the time.
Nate Scott [18:32]:
By the way, borrowing money from life insurance policies is generally not, the interest is not a tax deduction. So your accountant will say you can’t deduct the policy loan interest. But in the world of finance, in the world of tax deductibility, the purpose of the loan is what ends up determining whether or not something is deductible or not, which is what I’ve already brought up. So let us know if you want to do it.
But it’s hard to take advantage of and become a Master IBC. If you’re not going to take advantage of everything that’s available to you. So you might as well get into the habit of taking advantage of interest deductions when it’s appropriate, especially if your accountant gives you the green light and is on board. If they’re not, you either find a new accountant or just be okay without taking advantage of.
Nate Scott [19:05]:
That’s perfectly fine, but go ahead and take advantage of every benefit that you possibly can from the system. That would include tax deductions for interest. If it’s done correctly, it correctly follows the rules to document the interest. And if it’s for business or investment purposes only, it should be deductible according to the tax people we’ve talked to.
The fifth and the last one is don’t be afraid of strategic loan balances. Don’t be afraid of strategic loan balances. Once again, I’ve talked about strategic loan balances on this podcast. Before you can go back into the archive and see more detail of what I mean by this.
Nate Scott [19:33]:
In fact, actually, I think the episode that just launched, I think it was episode 217, may have just talked about strategic loan balances just recently. So 216 or 217, something like that. We talked about strategic loan balances. The idea behind a strategic loan balance is simply a loan balance inside the policies that you are not actively repaying with some sort of schedule.
So, to dive a bit deeper into that, I’ll give you a couple of examples of what I’m talking about. So, let’s say I was to borrow money to buy something personally, like a car. I was going to go buy a car with a policy loan or something like that. Anytime I borrow money to do something personally, I would strongly recommend a normal, adequate repayment schedule, possibly even like an amortized loan style schedule.
Nate Scott [20:19]:
So in other words, if I was going to borrow a car using a policy loan, I would treat it just like I treated a bank loan from somebody else. I would commit to repaying it over a period of time, maybe like 60 months, 72 months, something like that. I’d pay back over a period of time because it’s a personal expense. I’m going to need another car down the road.
The expense of owning a car is already in my budget in one fashion or another. We’ve talked about this before. You want to pay back personal policy loans for personal things on an actual schedule. Maybe it’s remodeling your house, maybe it’s buying a car, maybe it’s going on vacation.
Nate Scott [20:50]:
Maybe it’s charitable giving. You actually want to have a system for repaying those policy loans. Example number two, if I was to go borrow money to make an investment, I’m going to buy real estate. I’m going to invest with a loan to somebody, I’m going to invest in somebody else’s business.
I’m not going to actively, typically speaking, I don’t amortize those types of loans. I just simply repay those loans that I’ve taken from the investment proceeds. So in other words, if it’s an investment that’s going to produce cash flow, then I’m just going to have the cash flow the investment produces pay back the policy loan.
Nate Scott [21:18]:
I talked about that in episode 183, which I already told you to go look at, on how to set up your life around IBC. You’ll learn exactly how I do that in that episode 183, where we talked about that, but nonetheless. So with that system, if I’m going to invest money, it’s going to produce cash flow. I’m going to use the cash flow to funnel back in as repayments for the policy loan.
If it’s something I’m just going to buy and hold for a period of time, then I may not repay anything until I decide to sell out of that investment, or until some sort of liquidation event happens, in which case I’ll dump all the money back into the policy. What I wanted to say is those two normal occurrences, they have actual built in policy loan repayment schedules in some fashion, or we just know how we’re going to repay it.
The difference between those types of things and what I call a strategic loan balance is, a strategic loan balance is something that I don’t actually plan on repaying with any sort of the typical patterns of repayment that we’re used to. So, the reason why this is kind of a master, advanced style concept is because essentially, if you have a strategic loan balance, you dramatically increase the flexibility of contributions to your system.
Nate Scott [22:19]:
So, in other words, what this means is, for most of us, we have personal loans that we’re paying back on a schedule. We may have borrowed some money to make some investments, and those investments, the loans we took, are being repaid back, paid back from the proceeds of the investment, and then we have our premium that we’re paying. And the premium is limited based on the idea of this MEC limit that I have on my policies.
So, if you take all of these things into account, there’s only so much money that I can contribute to that system at any given moment in time. I’m limited to what my MEC limits across all my policies. The repayment schedule I have from policy loans for personal things, the repayment schedule that’s occurring through investment proceeds.
What if I receive additional funds from some outside source, whether some sort of windfall, maybe assets that I owned prior to doing IBC, that I didn’t fund from IBC that are selling and liquidating at some point? Perhaps I sold a business, perhaps I received an inheritance. Perhaps I just received a far greater amount of income from my job or something of that sort.
Nate Scott [23:14]:
All of these things put together result in if I was to create a strategic loan balance, then I can just dump money against that loan balance anytime I want to, willy-nilly, without any formal structure involved. And you typically can create strategic loan balances by expanding your system into more like a stage four type of environment.
So, you’re going to learn about strategic loan balances in episode, what was it? Episode 202. Where I talked about the four stages of IBC and also the four stages of IBC webinar that I’ve talked about, you’ll learn all about how to create strategic loan balances in a sensible way. With all that, you can’t be afraid to carry with you what I call strategic loan balances that can help you just dump money into the system whenever you want to without worrying about disrupting repayment schedules from investments that you’ve made from personal repayment schedules, and without having any concern about MEC limits on the policies itself.
So these five things are things that you can put into practice in your own life to become a master implementer of infinite banking. Remember, infinite banking is not a product that you buy. It is a system that you implement.
Nate Scott [00:24:19]:
It can be implemented. You can implement it successfully, or you can implement it poorly. If you put these five steps into play, you will implement it to its max potential. Remember, infinite banking improves everything that you do financially. So the stage at which you implement infinite banking, it can become more and more powerful in your life and help create more wealth and more efficiencies across the board in everything that you do.
So there’s a desire to become a master in this level, in this system. To recap the five, and we’ll be done. Step number one, set up your life around the policies.
Nate Scott [24:47]:
Set up your life around. Let your financial life revolve around policies. Right now, for most of us, our life revolves around bank accounts. Before, pre-IBC, the pre-IBC world, most life revolved around bank accounts. We have to transition that to revolving around policies. Don’t let the money sit. Use IBC. The policies that you’re building as a springboard to achieve things financially.
Nate Scott [00:25:07]:
Implement new strategies in your life. Investigate new ideas, new concepts. Put your policies to work for you in bigger and better ways. Don’t just borrow money for fun, that’s not what I’m talking about. There’s no magic for borrowing money, but use the capital inside the system to achieve financial significance in your life.
Step number three is, commit to stage three or four of IBC. You can watch episode 202 to look at what we mean by stages, but you cannot become a master of IBC whenever you are in stage one or two. Most of the time, people are in stage one or two because they are afraid of premium.
Nate Scott [25:37]:
So get over your fear of premium. Number four, take advantage of interest deductions. Don’t forget about the tax benefits of borrowing money to fund business and life and investment. Different things inside of your business, different investments that you can make. Take advantage of interest deductions. Take advantage of every benefit that you can get financially, especially in the world of IBC.
And number five, don’t be afraid of creating strategic loan balances to improve the efficiency and flexibility of your system overall.
Nate Scott [26:00]:
It’s been so great to have you guys. Thank you so much for being here. This has been “Dollars & Nonsense”. If you follow the herd, you will be slaughtered. For free transcripts and resources, please visit livingwealth.com/e218
