E124: How to Avoid Infinite Banking Concept Mistakes
In this podcast episode, we discuss how you can avoid the three most common mistakes people make when practicing the Infinite Banking Concept.
It’s actually hard to mess up the Infinite Banking Concept. It’s guaranteed to work as long as we follow the rules of banking in general. But, as Nelson Nash mentions in his book, the only thing that can destroy the Infinite Banking Concept is human error. The most common reason for failure is a misunderstanding. In fact, he dedicated a sizable portion of the book to discuss this.
Today, we’ll help you avoid the three most common causes of infinite banking failure…
Topics in this Episode discussed:
- How to avoid infinite banking concept mistakes
- The mindsets that must change to achieve financial success
- How to see opportunities when they present themselves
- Why repaying policy loans is the number one mistake people make
- What it means to steal the peas
- The mindset of seeing your policy as a banking business you are an owner in
- When it is ok to not repay a policy loan
- The pitfall of not understanding opportunity costs
- The mistake of merely seeing a policy as an investment opportunity instead of a holistic system of wealth creation
- Gain access to our Secret Banking Masterclass now FREE to listeners of the podcast here now
- What is Infinite Banking
- Who was Nelson Nash?
- CREDIT: Episode art background photo by Sarah Kilian
Episode 124 Transcript: How to avoid infinite banking concept mistakes
Nate: In this episode, we discuss how you can avoid the three most common mistakes people make when practicing the Infinite Banking Concept. She’s Holly, and she helps people find financial freedom.
Holly: He’s Nate. He makes sense out of money. This is Dollars & Nonsense. If you follow the herd, you will be slaughtered.
Nate: All right. Well, today, we’re going to discuss the three most common mistakes or pitfalls that we see many of our clients making. I don’t know if I’d say many, but plenty of clients making in the last 10, 15 years of practicing infinite banking. And you know what? It’s actually really hard to mess up the Infinite Banking Concept. It really is. It’s guaranteed to work as long as we follow the rules of banking in general and what Holly and I have found out. And what Nelson Nash, who created this idea and wrote the book on it. He mentions, really, that the only things that can destroy IBC is human problems. Is when we get in our own way. And that’s typically the case for every financial endeavor. As you’re trying to build wealth, whether it’s infinite banking or not, the most common reason for failure is your own misunderstanding. Your own failure.
Your personal human problems are things that we tend to do that are not based on reality that hurt us. And so Nelson Nash had actually a big section in his book describing the human problems that will get in the way of being a successful infinite banker. And so that’s really what we want to talk about today, is the three most common mistakes that are made. Most of the time, they’re based on some sort of human issue or human problem that we don’t fully grasp or fully merge ourselves into the Infinite Banking Concept. We just kind of dabble our feet in it, and it causes us to have some misunderstandings that produce a future that we were hoping not to make. I guess I’d say.
Holly: It’s human mistakes. But it’s also changing your mindset the way you think and process your idea around IBC, but more importantly, around money-
Nate: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Holly: … and how money actually works. And it really is counterintuitive to what most of us have been taught our entire life. So it is literally like retraining your brain, how to think or process when you’re working with the infinite banking system. Remember, it’s a system, but if you don’t know how to use it, or you’re not using it properly, then, basically, you will probably fall into one of these three pitfalls. And then you end up on the other side, going, “Why didn’t I do it differently, or why didn’t I know this?”
Nate: Right. And some of the pitfalls can actually harm you if you don’t do it the right way, and actually can hurt you financially. Other pitfalls that we’ll talk about here just actually force you to miss out on opportunities. It’s what they would call opportunity costs.
Nate: So it’d be like, “Hey, if I had done it differently, I could’ve lived my life and end up with more money.” So most of the pitfalls are in that vein. It’s more like you’re just not being very efficient with it. You have some sort of mental issue that are a hurdle that you haven’t gotten over, most of the time built on some sort of misunderstanding. And that has kept you from achieving a higher level of success. But it is also true that if you really break the rules pretty badly, you can actually get hurt.
You’re going to end up losing money. So we want to make sure that does not happen to anybody. I guess we can dive into the three common pitfalls that we see, and there’s probably more. The first one we want to discuss is probably the most damaging, depending on where you’re at. But the first one is, we speak with many people, and we find that, as time has gone on, they’ve been practicing IBC, but they have never repaid any of the policy loans that they’ve taken. So it’s a common mistake that’s made, partly because of the freedom that infinite banking provides. You can take policy loans, and nobody is going to force you to repay any of it. You’re going to repay it for your own benefit is essentially why you’re repaying it. But what we’ve found is sometimes that freedom is taken for granted.
If you’re not disciplined financially before you start infinite banking when you start it, you either have to learn quick or else it won’t really do much for you. Because if every dollar that comes into your pocket has to go out, you’ll never really be able to repay anything you’ve taken out. And so you’ll look 20 years down the road, and you won’t have any money. So first pitfall is that many times, I don’t know if I’d say many. I think a lot of clients do repay and I really [inaudible 00:04:49] want to discuss, when should you repay? How should you repay?
When is it okay not to repay a policy loan and really try to scope this out because this is a very common question. And it’s a very common pitfall for some that they’re 10-years into infinite banking, and they’re wondering why it’s not really working for them. And then we take a look at what they’ve done, and all they’ve ever done is paid a premium and taken a max loan every year and never had any flow of money back in other than that. And so they must be missing something. So let’s go ahead and discuss this a little in some detail if we could.
Holly: Nelson kind of refers to it in IBC as you don’t steal the peas.
Nate: Yeah. If you’re around IBC circles for too long, you’ll hear, “Don’t steal the peas.” And it’s like our cult saying, I guess.
Holly: It is. And it’s kind of like if you own a grocery store and you were out of peas, you’d run downstairs and grab a can of peas off the shelf and not pay for it. And what you don’t realize is how many cans of peas you have to sell to recoup or recover that one can you took. Instead of if you paid for the can of peas, your loan, paid it back. Then basically, you’ve generated more money, and you didn’t have to sell or create more dollars in the future to make that loan you took work.
Nate: Yeah. And I love his example. The grocery store example was one of his most famous-
Holly: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nate: … examples in his book of how to treat money and that this is a human problem. This has nothing to do with infinite banking. This is a human-
Holly: Mm-mm (negative).
Nate: … problem. That whenever you own a grocery store, most of the time, the owner of the grocery store, if they’re honest, they don’t actually pay for the groceries. But that’s kind of the premise, “Hey, it’s my grocery store. I’ve already paid for it. I own the store. And so if I want a can of peas, I can just take one off the shelf, and we can go eat it at home,” and without paying for it. But what Nelson has brought up is that you have to have a plan. If you’re going to take merchandise off the shelves, you’ve got to have a plan to put merchandise back on the shelves. And the banking business is the same way. You can’t take money off the shelves with no plan on putting that money back on the shelves.
Or else, when customers come by to buy the peas or to buy your money, you have nothing on the shelves to offer, and they’re going to go shop somewhere else. And so you’ll miss out on income and profit doing this. And as you mentioned, Holly, he brings it up. That with a can of peas. They may sell it for a dollar, but it probably costs them 80 to 90 cents to buy the can of peas wholesale price. So if you take one can of peas off the shelf, you’ll actually have to sell five to 10 cans just to make up in the profit that would be received to make up for the one that you stole. And this is the same mentality that needs to be brought into infinite banking.
Holly: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nate: That you see the policies that you’re building as a business, and you’re treating it like a banker would treat his business. And you’re not thinking as a consumer only. You’re thinking as a banker. And so you always want to be restocking the shelves so that money can be redeployed or merchandise can be returned. In the business world, you’re turning merchandise, and this case, money. You will always want to have a stock house here. So I guess why do people not repay loans would be the question. I think most people wish-
Nate: … they could. There’s some mental issues, I think, that come in and there may be just some financial issues that may come in that put people in the position where all they do is take peas off the shelves, and they don’t ever put peas back on the shelves.
Holly: Back on. Yeah. And Nate, I think part of the biggest problem is that they usually happens because they don’t see the policy as a bank account, or they don’t actually treat the loan as a legitimate loan. Even though it’s from the life insurance company to them they don’t treat it as an actual loan. So if you don’t view your policy as a bank account, you can’t just take withdraws out and never put any deposits back in, like we say. On the same hand with a loan. A loan to anybody else, other than yourself, you have to repay, a loan from your life insurance policy to you basically or the company to you. Nobody’s making you repay that loan. And so, because nobody’s making you, you don’t actually view it as a loan. You don’t see it as, “This is a debt that’s legitimately owed.”
Nate: And Nelson Nash writes about this in his book too about legitimate conventional banks.
Holly: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nate: Many of them have gone under because the owners of the banks have treated it like it was their own money. And they’re just pulling out interest-free loans and using the [inaudible 00:09:26] invest. And they think they’ve got it made, and the bank goes under because it’s bad practice. So the way that you have to consider is that you opened up a banking business and that you should treat yourself not as some hotshot owner who can run in and pull money out whenever and do whatever he wants with the money because it’s his business. You’ve got to have real principles that follow the banking world in line, where that if you’re an owner of a bank, you should have to go through the same rigmarole to get money out as another customer.
That’s how you produce the most sound financially banking instrument. My opinion is, though, you should see this as building a banking business, and you should want your banking business to be as profitable as possible. In fact, you want it to be so profitable that the profits can provide enough money to retire if you wanted to. To produce enough passive income to live on. So the goal should be, how do I create a profitable banking business? And I think that sometimes goes in one ear out the other at times. The reason why it’s very common, I’ve found in a lot of circles, that people end up pulling all this money out, and they never have any intention of putting back or no plan to pay back or no idea how they’re going to do it.
Nate: A lot of the times it occurs because they don’t see their policy as the bank yet. They still love their bank account. They’re in a dating relationship with a checking account at the bank. They love that thing. And so they’ll write a premium check out of their bank account, and it’ll hit a policy, and they’ll pull out a policy loan just to put money back in their precious bank account, just because they have… they want money sitting in there. That’s what they’ve always had. And when you start living that way, you almost will see the policy as a hindrance. What you have to do is want money in the policy, not want money in a bank account. Don’t have a good bank account and a bad policy. Have a good-
Nate: … policy in a bad bank account. That should be the goal. You’re building a banking business. Anybody who owned a bank wouldn’t want as much of their deposits as possible in that bank. And they would not go shop around at their competitors. It wouldn’t make any sense. So see yourself in the banking business, don’t shop around in amongst the competitors. I know that’s an analogy, but it’s just true. You got to be… see yourself as a banker. And how can you create the most profit banking business? The surefire way to do that is to stop leaving money sitting in someone else’s bank, and while your bank has no money on the shelves.
Holly: And Nate, I think too, you got to think about it. Remember, it’s a bank, right. Most of you that like, “Oh, this bank account looks so good.” But you’re leaving money sitting in the bank, not your bank. Like Nate said, it’s not your bank. It’s somebody else’s bank. Where do you want your dollar sitting? In your bank or somebody else’s bank? The answer should always be your own bank.
Nate: Absolutely. Absolutely. So the number one pitfall is that people use money with no intention of repaying, no plan to repay. And I know we’ve been on this for a little while. I guess I’ll just kind of wrap it up by saying there are times when not repaying alone is fine. It happens. I mean, we like the fact that we don’t have to repay a loan. That no one’s forcing us to. That we don’t have to file bankruptcy or anything. There’s no negative consequence essentially, except for it handicaps your ability to build wealth if you don’t treat it the right way. But a lot of times, if you’re using a policy loan to buy an asset and investment, there’s no real need to repay that policy loan until the investment itself produces profit to allow you to. And this happens all the time where someone may pull money out, but they have an understanding of when they’re going to repay it.
You don’t need to be making monthly loan repayments on it. But if you’re going to buy an asset that you’re planning on holding for five or 10-years, and then you’re going to sell it later, that is your loan repayment plan. And it works fine that way. It’d be fine. Go ahead and own that asset. Let it appreciate it. And then, when you sell it, move the money back into the policy. The problem is when people don’t do it that way.
Nate: When they buy the asset, they sell it, and they don’t put the money back in the policy. And then they roll it into the next investment without ever putting it back and then rolling it back out of the policy. There’s never any flow of money back in. The same thing would go for if you’re buying an asset that’s producing rental income. You should not let the rental income just sit and accumulate in a bank account. It needs to go back into the policy.
This hits people all the time. They see their bank account as their bank account and their policy as just a place to pay premiums and borrow money. It should be the bank account. It should be the center of everything. It should be where everything offshoots. So there’s real reasons when not to repay policy loans. I don’t think we’re going to give it justice in the time we have. So if you’re someone who’s listening to this and like, “Oh, I’ve got loans I haven’t repaid.” It’s actually totally fine in a lot of circumstances. But you have to make sure you’re in one of the situations that didn’t make sense, is what I’m trying to get at.
Holly: And you have to have a plan, Nate, that’s the other thing. “I’m going to do this when…” You need to actually have not just a plan but the mindset, like you said. And I know we’re harping on this. But you are going to put the money back in the policy. Because the biggest pitfall of this not working and not having money is when you actually do not see this as a loan, and you never have an intention, or you don’t intentionally to ever pay that loan back.
Nate: Exactly. And one of the main times where I’ve found that it’s doing fine, even without planning on repaying, it is really if you’re borrowing money to allow yourself to fund even more premium. So, in other words, if you have to take a loan and to do something because you just wrote a big premium check and you don’t have the money to accomplish something. Well, all I’m trying to say is, as long as the amount of cash value is continually increasing inside your policy and more money’s going in than what is coming out, you’re probably going to be okay. The problem is whenever you put money in and take it all immediately out to go do something elsewhere, and you never have any intention of putting it back into the system, that’s when it can be a problem. So I don’t want everyone to hear this and say, “Well, crap, I’m not doing it right.” It’s possible you are even if you have a loan balances that are sitting outside. But it really is based on is more money entering the system than what is leaving? That’s the most important piece.
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Nate: The second pitfall and this is mainly having to do with opportunity costs. The second pitfall is that there are many of our clients end up, for some reason, being afraid to pay premiums. There is some sort of fear associated with the word premium. Obviously, we’ve talked about it many times, where many times it’s seen as a payment, an obligation-
Nate: … or a liability that has to be paid. And so, it produces anxiety and stress. And we don’t like payments, so we try to keep payments as low as we can. And so, essentially, there’s a mental hurdle where this premium is bad. “This premium is super rigid. There’s no flexibility. Something bad’s going to happen if I don’t pay it.” And so we get all of these thoughts, and like, I got to have the smallest premium that I can get that would make sense, a super conservative amount. And we’re going to talk a little bit about why this is the case. But this is a pitfall. Because, normally, when someone does this, they end up leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table over a lifetime, if not more, solely because they had, what I would call, an irrational fear based on ignorance. Based on just a misunderstanding. They don’t understand how flexible the system is or how fluid it can be. And it limits their ability to be successful.
Holly: It’s also that change or that shift, Nate, in your mindset and the way you think. As soon as you start realizing this premium is a deposit and not a payment, it does give you a bit of freedom, in my viewpoint. Or even when you get a notice that you got a premium due, people panic. They’re like, “Oh, this is due.” Because immediately, the premium do becomes a payment mentality. As soon as you see it as, “Oh yeah, I get to deposit more money in my bank account.” You actually are a happy camper because I’m like, “What is this going to do? How is this going to benefit? How much is this going to grow by? How is this going to work in the future?” So I think once you are able to actually really see it as a deposit when you get that premium notice, it’s not one of dread. It’s one of joy.
Nate: Yeah. And I love how you put that. It’s almost hard for some people to imagine that I and I don’t just say this because I’m in the business. I actually thoroughly enjoy receiving premium notices. I love it. I am so excited to pay premiums. And it’s not just me saying that. I’ve got a premium coming due in a couple of weeks, and I’m counting down the days. I’m super excited about it because I know that the premium is for a $30,000 premium policy. And when I write this premium check for $30,000, my cash value is going to grow by $35,000. And I’m sitting here. I can’t wait for the day that I get to write them a check for 30 grand, and they can write me a check for 35 grand. That’s a $5,000 profit day tax-free. I like to have as many of those as I can possibly get.
That’s how you practice IBC, looking forward to pay premium. In fact, Nelson Nash said this. He said there’s really only two rules to doing IBC.
Holly: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nate: “Don’t be afraid to capitalize,” which means don’t be afraid to pay premiums.
Nate: “And don’t steal the peas.” Those are his two rules. Don’t be afraid of paying premiums. That’s how you build growth inside the system. And when you use money, don’t just steal the peas. Put the money back on the shelf. And if you follow these two rules, everything’s going to go really well for you. But the reason why some people are afraid of premiums is because they’re still stuck in payment mentality, which lot of times occurs because they like having a flush bank account.
Holly: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nate: And so they write a check out of the bank account, and now they feel like they have less money. That’s not true. Maybe in the very early years of a policy. Year one and two, that might be moderately true. But once the policy is up and running, you write a check, and you actually make money after you write the check. It’s important to consider that.
Holly: The reality is, is that you have to see it as a business, right. There’s always some costs. And we talked about this on the last podcast, I believe. But there is a cost involved initially to start it up. But like Nate said, the cost to start it up is minimal compared to the long-term results of what you get with implementing the system.
Nate: Everything worth doing has some sort of cost, and everything that’s free, typically, is not worth doing. It’s why bank counts are not worth doing. You can open a bank account for free. No fee bank accounts. Almost everybody’s got them. You can go somewhere and get yourself a free bank account. Well, how can they afford to service you and not charge you a dime? That’s because they’re making a crap ton of money off of your deposits by putting them to work, and they’re just not paying you anything for those deposits. With a policy, there might be a cost associated with it. But the cost is to allow you to capitalize a bank that makes you money. And what we like to liking it to capitalizing your education when you went to college. Most people don’t go to college just for the joy of learning. There may be some out there, but very few. Most of the time, you go to college and give them money, huge amounts of money for most people, in order to allow you to make more profit in the future.
You’re not doing it just to throw money away. Oh, I guess I should say that there’s plenty of students who are doing that. But it shouldn’t be. You should do it because you want to make more money in the future. That’s why most people go to university. So all that just say don’t be afraid to capitalize. It’s fundamental. Many times it’s based on a fear maybe of how inflexible it is. They think that there’s some sort of negative consequence if one year they don’t have enough money out of their earnings to pay a premium. That’s typically not true. They may see that a set amount that they have to pay every year. That’s typically not true. How the premiums can be reduced dramatically. A policy can pay for it. So they think the premium is going to do for forever. That’s typically not true.
All this to say that most of the things that people are concerned about that keeps them from actually expanding their bank and becoming more profitable are based on misunderstandings that produce fear. If that fits you. If the boot fits, then potentially come talk to Holly or me just to ask the questions, how flexible is it really? What is the worst-case scenario? What can I do if I’m not able to fund everything? And well, I think we can allay that. Not because we’re trying to be a salesperson or anything like that. Just because the reality that it’s extremely flexible. And we want everyone to get to the point that they’re like us. That a premium due day is an awesome day. It’s a day to make money. It’s a day to produce profit. I’m excited for it.
Holly: Yeah. Well, you got to overcome the misunderstandings or the fear. And often, I think we fear what we don’t know, Nate.
Nate: Yeah, we do.
Holly: And so, because we don’t know, we don’t ask. I’m going to say it’s a safe environment to ask Nate and I a question. To never be afraid to ask the question, Nate, or what you don’t understand. Reach out and ask those questions because that’s the only way you can overcome the fear. We fear what we don’t know. And as soon as there’s knowledge or understanding around that, oftentimes it replaces that misunderstanding with the knowledge that brings you the piece to be able to move forward.
Nate: Truth will set you free, and that’s the case and almost everywhere-
Nate: … in life. Don’t just walk around with anxiety about something without actually getting an answer. Maybe there’s a real reason to be anxious about it, but at least let’s figure that out. Don’t just live with it. And we are running out of time, but we’ve got one more to discuss. Our last and third common pitfall is a lot of people see the policy as the investment and they treat it like an investment. And when they do an IBC, they look at the whole life insurance policy built for maximum cash value. And they look at the growth, and they say, “Wow, that’s great.” And it is good. We love that. But then that turns them, and they bring their investment mentality, which is all we’ve ever known. The set it and forget it mentality that I’m just going to make deposits into this 401k for forever, and hopefully, there’s a good amount of money left for me 40 years down the road.
And then we put the policy in that same environment where it’s just a good place to put money. While I would agree that I love putting money in it. You can’t see it as the investment because that will limit what you end up doing with it. You’ll just have money sitting inside of it. It’s kind of the opposite pitfall of the people who never repay the loans. They’ve got no money sitting in it, and that’s a pitfall. And then the other side is the people who have never once taken a policy loan and have no intention of ever using any of the money. That’s not the purpose of IBC.
Holly: Yeah. It just becomes a savings account that sits there. And really, the best practice for this is IBC is a system. We keep saying that. It’s a system. It’s your bank account. It’s a business. The best way when you work with IBC is when you actually see it and take advantage of those opportunities. You got to see IBC that you can use this system to your advantage.
Nate: Exactly. IBC essentially is all about building capital, and capital is meant to be deployed. So if we get all economical, we’re building up capital that will hopefully one day be deployed to produce value in our lives. So whether that’s paying off debt. Whether that’s buying assets and making other investments through the system, all those are awesome. But even the simple things that people can do that they’re not aware of just by changing how you pay for a vacation could actually end up working in your favor through the policy. The same thing with charitable giving. We’ve talked about that. Property taxes, income taxes. Sending your kids to private school. As you’re building up capital in the policy, there are ways you can deploy that money to put it to work in your life that can actually create value that’s greater than if you just left the money sitting in the policy.
So that’s where the fun strategy sessions come up with clients where we figure out, and maybe not everyone is in a perfect situation to use it right away, necessarily. But all that to say, many times, there’s some avenue to put the money to work that will then free up money that would have been spent on that item that can go into the system potentially with extra PUAs, potentially with a new policy, potentially with something, that suddenly, the growth of your system has changed forever and you’re making more money for forever because you did this one change. That’s very common.
So don’t get all stuck with the policies and investment, and the only thing I’m planning on doing with it is making deposits. The goal should be to utilize some money. Put some motion in the banking system. But you want to make sure you’re doing that in a way that produces value. So sometimes that takes a call with Holly or me or someone to help with that, to understand, “Hey, this is a good idea for me to use it. And this is the result that I’m going to get if I use it.”
Holly: Using your system sometimes brings you the freedom to be able to do things you never thought you could, such as taking a vacation, right. Or, “Hey, I want to be able to give more charitably.” The success stories I hear are not necessarily on this big, huge investment you made. Those are successful too. But the freedom that individuals had that they didn’t ever realize they could actually go on that vacation and do that. They could actually give more to charity and reap a benefit. Or just being able to pay your property taxes without worrying about that additional expense by using your policy and the freedom that it gives. So that is one of the best parts about IBC, is being able to discover the things you can use it for and the fun and the joy that that brings to your life and the memories it creates.
Nate: Absolutely. Infinite banking is supposed to excite you.
Nate: And a lot of clients that we work with obviously are very excited about the system and what it’s allowing them to do. The building up of capital. The opportunities they’ve taken advantage of. The systematic way of building wealth. The guaranteed nature of it. It’s supposed to be exciting. So if you are not excited about it, it typically means something is missing. The something is going awry. There’s a pitfall or a misunderstanding that’s going through your head or something is not the way it should be if you’re not excited about the system because that’s what it’s supposed to bring, a freedom. So these three pitfalls, I’m sure there are more, but these are the three most common that we run into day in and day out. We hope that you avoid these and ask us questions to help alleviate some of these things and put yourself on a successful journey with IBC that you won’t look back with regrets. That’s our goal. This has been Dollars & Nonsense. If you follow the herd, you will get slaughtered
Holly: For free transcripts and resources, please visit livingwealth.com/e124.
Announcer: Dollars & Nonsense podcast listeners, one more thing before you go. Ease your worry and start your journey towards security today. Visit living wealth.com/secretbanking. You’ll gain instant free access to the special one-hour course Holly and Nate made for you. Again, that’s living wealth.com/secretbanking.
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